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View Full Version : Madonna falls foul of the 'BJJ IS TEH GAY!1!!!' fallacy



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slideyfoot
10/24/2005 7:05am,
From the work search engine - couldn't find an internet link, though that doesn't necessarily mean one doesn't exist:


"]MADONNA giggles every time she thinks of husband Guy Ritchie's love of martial arts - because she's convinced it's little more than heterosexual men making love.

The pop superstar accuses the British movie-maker of "usurping" her security guards and turning them into his "ju-jitsu partners" - and she find it hilarious.

She says, "I think men can't resist the invitation to fight one another and they get into their shorts and they lay down on the floor and they just hug each other for two hours.

"They sweat and they hug and they grunt and they sit on each other's faces.

"My husband's more into it with the people he does ju-jitsu with than he is with me - like, sometimes I walk in and I'm like, 'We haven't done that position!'"

Amazingly reminiscent of the kind of comments you see from a plethora of ignorant and/or teenage discreditors of BJJ. Its not just Madonna, either; I also came across a rather more intellectually put comment on wrestling in some literary criticism I was reading for a chapter of my thesis:


Articulate Flesh: Male Homo-Eroticism and Modern Poetry[/i], Gregory Woods, (London; New Haven: Yale University Press, 1987)"]Wrestling is a ‘safe’ activity, in both life and art, bearing none of the weight of the taboo against homosexual intercourse. As such, wrestling can be used as a cover for sex. The one is, merely, an acceptable version of the other. There is a tradition, by which two supposedly heterosexual buddies may fight each other and in the heat of the contest, somehow, switch their athletic focus from limbs to groin. They may reach orgasm together, without in any way exchanging their roles of heterosexual buddies for those of homosexual lovers. After all, combat is combat. Wrestling is, therefore, the heterosexually acceptable form of homosexual foreplay. Semen be showered off men’s bellies afterward, as if it were, merely, a wetter kind of sweat. For these reasons, fellatio and anal intercourse, those infallible signs of homosexual passion, rarely have a place in the gymnasia of heterosexual homosexuality. Clinch and hold take technical precedence. Intercrural and intercorporal convulsions, since they do not involve the entry of one man by the other, are permitted; as is mutual masturbation, by virtue of its use of that unquestionably virile weapon, the clenched fist. Kissing, of course, is against the rules...

Now, when I read that, I was somewhat taken aback. To claim that there is a tradition that wrestling often acts as a cover for actual homosexual acts seems a bit unlikely. I can understand it as a metaphor for sexual activity in general, which Woods discusses earlier in that chapter, but as a piece of anecdotal evidence, I find it hard to believe that wrestlers commonly ejaculate during a bout.

In case anyone is wondering what the hell kind of thesis would involve that reading, it was a chapter on Thom Gunn, a noted homosexual poet, who both discussed homosexual intercourse in some of his poems (not all that surprising for a homosexual poet) and specifically recommended Woods in his own critical essays.

Ronin
10/24/2005 7:38am,
Madonna's an idiot.
This is news?

danno
10/24/2005 7:49am,
this really pisses me off. wrestlers ejaculating on each other? how the **** did he come up with that? it sounds more like a sexual fantasy of the author's.

people can't help making sexual connotations when two people of either sex engage in any kind of physical contact.

FictionPimp
10/24/2005 8:03am,
Originally Posted by Articulate Flesh: Male Homo-Eroticism and Modern Poetry, Gregory Woods, (London; New Haven: Yale University Press, 1987):
Wrestling is a ‘safe’ activity, in both life and art, bearing none of the weight of the taboo against homosexual intercourse. As such, wrestling can be used as a cover for sex. The one is, merely, an acceptable version of the other. There is a tradition, by which two supposedly heterosexual buddies may fight each other and in the heat of the contest, somehow, switch their athletic focus from limbs to groin. They may reach orgasm together, without in any way exchanging their roles of heterosexual buddies for those of homosexual lovers. After all, combat is combat. Wrestling is, therefore, the heterosexually acceptable form of homosexual foreplay. Semen be showered off men’s bellies afterward, as if it were, merely, a wetter kind of sweat. For these reasons, fellatio and anal intercourse, those infallible signs of homosexual passion, rarely have a place in the gymnasia of heterosexual homosexuality. Clinch and hold take technical precedence. Intercrural and intercorporal convulsions, since they do not involve the entry of one man by the other, are permitted; as is mutual masturbation, by virtue of its use of that unquestionably virile weapon, the clenched fist. Kissing, of course, is against the rules...

Remind me not to wrestle that guy. I think he put waayy to much thought into how to turn wrestling into sex.

Judah Maccabee
10/24/2005 8:47am,
http://www.q.co.za/2001/2001/09/27-sextalkwrestling.html


Most hardcore sport wrestlers would deny that, of course. Members of gay wrestling leagues are adamant about it: sex has nothing to do with their sport. "I'm just sick of people thinking we wrestle with hard-ons," says one accomplished middleweight.

slideyfoot
10/24/2005 9:36am,
Members of gay wrestling leagues are adamant about it: sex has nothing to do with their sport. "I'm just sick of people thinking we wrestle with hard-ons," says one accomplished middleweight.

That kind of sentiment is helpful, especially when idiots come up with the sort of tripe Madonna is spouting. However, its considerably undermined by sites like matbattle.com (www.matbattle.com), which includes snippets like this:


Brazilian jiu-jitsu techniques are a whole lot rougher than judo's, pal, and if you think you know better, then maybe I gotta reeducate you a little; lock my arms and legs around you and just start screwing my hard-on into your hips, dude, tying you down and feeling you up and choking you out all once

There's certainly a place for gay men who wish to use the grappling knowledge they have to enhance foreplay, and www.matbattle.com caters for that. However, its irritating when such emphasis affects genuine martial arts practice, and in particular, genuine gay martial artists. The men of the gay wrestling league quoted in samurai_steve's post would be a case in point. The perception that grappling is equivalent to sexual activity, held by elements of both the homosexual and heterosexual community, impacts negatively upon those who wish to take their sport seriously, be they gay or straight.

Cassius
10/24/2005 10:35am,
WHAT THE ****?

Ronin
10/24/2005 10:39am,
Madonna ?
Gay grappling?

Well, only one place for this thread.

CanucKyokushin
10/24/2005 10:46am,
HAHAHAHAHAHA!Let me know if kicking a guy in the nuts is some form of gay metaphor for showing love.

Darkpaladin
10/24/2005 11:07am,
I didn't think this was bad enough for trollshido.

But on a lighter note, I only get arroused when I'm wrasslin gurls.

Zendetta
10/24/2005 12:09pm,
Someone giving ol Guy a nasty Ground and pound should spoil the mood for her.

TonyM
10/24/2005 12:46pm,
I think I'm going to be sick now,

DerAuslander
10/24/2005 2:17pm,
Oh god...there go my nachos...

Ronin
10/24/2005 2:54pm,
So a BLATANT thread about how "grappling is gay" does what exactly for bullshido?
Contributes what exactly ?

Cassius
10/24/2005 3:02pm,
So a BLATANT thread about how "grappling is gay" does what exactly for bullshido?
Contributes what exactly ?I actually think this is an interesting read, even if it is horrifying. I can't believe the misconceptions some people have about grappling, or the damage they could do to it when they judge it so quickly.

I don't see how this thread is any worse than Corky McJackass starting 50 threads in Bullshido asking people's opinions on Kyokushin Karate and Muay Thai. At least the poster had some analysis and there was a bit of follow-up.

Ronin
10/24/2005 3:03pm,
Whatever.
Fucking homos.