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Blue Collar
10/03/2005 5:54am,
Does anyone have any information on the legitemacy of the Native American fighting arts as taught by Robert Redfeather and Adrian Roman? They both sound like a money manking scam to me.

Method2Madness
10/03/2005 8:18am,
http://members.aol.com/irondogfst/dogfist/redfeather.htm
http://www.maotw.com/gmg/t/tiegou.html

is this the Redfeather of which you speak?

Blue Collar
10/03/2005 8:43am,
http://members.aol.com/irondogfst/dogfist/redfeather.htm
http://www.maotw.com/gmg/t/tiegou.html

is this the Redfeather of which you speak?

Yep. Thanks for the links, too. It seems that there is much more Bullshido there that meets the eye.

Method2Madness
10/03/2005 8:53am,
Yep. Thanks for the links, too. It seems that there is much more Bullshido there that meets the eye.

seems like it

Blue Collar
10/03/2005 9:13am,
I'm curious as to the authenticity of his "Apache knifefighting". The photos in the link you posted speaks volumes about the kind of "master" Redfeather may be.

Planktime
10/03/2005 9:14am,
I can't say that I know any more then I have read on these two sites. I am suspicious of anyone who claims to know a native art since it isnít like the Apache wrote their system down, created forms, or are really mentioned anywhere in a historical sense. I am sure they had a fighting system, whether these gentlemen are teaching THAT system seems bullshido.

I could claim that i know a viking system of martial arts since my family is decended form the norse who took over part of england that would rock :viking:

Blue Collar
10/03/2005 9:17am,
Those were my thoughts exactly.

Blue Collar
10/03/2005 9:22am,
I already know thah Adrian Roman is a bullshitter from his black-belt-by-mail program. His Native American martial arts system is probably bull **** too.

daGorilla
10/03/2005 9:25am,
I can't say that I know any more then I have read on these two sites. I am suspicious of anyone who claims to know a native art since it isn’t like the Apache wrote their system down, created forms, or are really mentioned anywhere in a historical sense. I am sure they had a fighting system, whether these gentlemen are teaching THAT system seems bullshido.

I could claim that i know a viking system of martial arts since my family is decended form the norse who took over part of england that would rock :viking:

I don't see any blatant Bullshido from those links. All I see is a guy that likes to get photos with B (or C-level) actors and some prominent martial arts masters -- and his claims seem reasonably legit, with the exception of the apache knife-fighting system. However, I don't find it completely unbelieveable that a) such a system might exist; and b) that he may have learned it. If such a system exists, why would it be so hard to believe that he learned it? It's likely not a very old system.... probably much younger than those 1000-year old martial arts....

Anyway -- like I said -- I don't see any *blatant* Bullshido -- just some information that raises questions.

-daGorilla

Method2Madness
10/03/2005 9:27am,
i highly doubt that this guy has the real Native American martial arts. I know that native american warriors trained in wrestling, like most cultures do, but i don't think they had a systemized martial art.

angel_07
10/03/2005 10:08am,
i highly doubt that this guy has the real Native American martial arts. I know that native american warriors trained in wrestling, like most cultures do, but i don't think they had a systemized martial art.

i highly doubt you know what the fu(k you're talking about.
this guy says he learned apache survival and knife fighting skills from his
grandfather on the reservation. you obviously don't have a clue how these
people live. i live in oklahoma where there are more native americans than
any other place. these people still speak their native languages most of
the time, eat their native foods, and generally live the way of their ancestors.
(with the exception of the random trans-am on blocks in the front yard)

apaches WERE great guerilla warriors. that is a WELL known fact. they WERE
known for their knife fighting skills. (geronimo had a really bitchin one)
there's no reason whatsoever to think that this man's grandfather wouldn't
have taught him something that he considered to be important to his heritage.

anybody notice his photo with oleg taktarov and another one with dog brothers??

Method2Madness
10/03/2005 10:15am,
i know that they were great warriors, but i didnt know that they were known for their knife fighting skills. You have taught me somthing and for this i thank you.

angel_07
10/03/2005 10:19am,
if you want to have an idea about how these people lived (and often still do)..
read geronimo's autobiography... here's one.
http://www.nativeamericans.com/Geronimo.htm#Origins%20of%20the%20Apache%20Indians

Method2Madness
10/03/2005 10:22am,
i'll do that.

Planktime
10/03/2005 10:28am,
I agree Gorilla, I just find it sketchy to say that it is based on the techniques of Apache warriors. I would have to research it some more but I would think that a) the Apache did not have a writen language to pass on their fighting system. b) contact with the invadeing white folks was disasterous for the Apache. So you take the period when the Apache society was at its height, sometime before 1870. (1870 is the year that the US army defeated the Apache.) lets say that they developed that system before this time. If there was a war with the US those who fought would have been treated very poorly if they were captured. (probably would have been killed on the spot) this leaves less warriors to pass on their craft. Still it is possible an old "master" survived the war. Then lets say that he passed his style down to a few students before he/she died. That gets the legacey of the school to some where around 1920ish. Assumeing then that this Redfeather fellow is a member of the same tribe or whatever he could have been the one who reveived this system. That is looking at it form a very asian martial arts view. It is more likely that when he was a kid his uncle tought him how to knife fight and created a system out of it and called it Apache knife fighting.

As for the rest i cannot say that he is bullshido based on his web sites. The school where I train has the worst site design possible IMHO.

Blue Collar
10/03/2005 10:41am,
i highly doubt you know what the fu(k you're talking about.
this guy says he learned apache survival and knife fighting skills from his
grandfather on the reservation. you obviously don't have a clue how these
people live. i live in oklahoma where there are more native americans than
any other place. these people still speak their native languages most of
the time, eat their native foods, and generally live the way of their ancestors.
(with the exception of the random trans-am on blocks in the front yard)

apaches WERE great guerilla warriors. that is a WELL known fact. they WERE
known for their knife fighting skills. (geronimo had a really bitchin one)
there's no reason whatsoever to think that this man's grandfather wouldn't
have taught him something that he considered to be important to his heritage.

anybody notice his photo with oleg taktarov and another one with dog brothers??

All Native American factoids aside; how do wo know the part about the knife fighting system being passed down from his grandfather to him is really true? I don't totally discount the possibility, but it seems a more than little hokie to me. I think that Planktime's suspicion may be more accurate.

The pictures were fine. All they really prove is that he was at the same place, at the same time as these notable matrial artists.