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King Sleepless
9/13/2005 2:06pm,
I'm 5'8" and about 140-145lbs depending on the humidity. I've tried so hard to just gain mass, I've squeezed all the power I can out of technique and stuff, and now it's all simply just physical strength now.

I'm going on one last diet/excercise plan before I just quit and stay a skinny twig with girly hips.

I'm gonna be taking:
- N02
- Creatine
- 210 grams of protein every day
- Eat a lot.
- Lift more than I normally do (I bench 160lbs, and I do enough reps and crap until my body basically shuts down or I can't lift anymore).

I dont' know what else I can do. Any suggestions?

Loredon
9/13/2005 3:26pm,
Okay first of all before you screw your liver up. You don't need to be eating anywhere NEAR that much protein. Your body can only process 1.5 g's per KG of bodyweight anabollically. Everything else if broken down and used for energy. So after you have covered that base amount of protein everything else if Calories. Preferablly from complex carbs.

Second of all you don't need to lift more than you normally do just at lower reps and higher sets if your taking creatine. Creatine doesn't make you lift more it just makes your muscles recover quicker so you need to be doing more sets. In the neighborhood of 4 - 6. I suggest lifting 5 days a week personally but if you don't have that kind of time to dedicate to it then that's totally understandable. Stuff like Deadlifts and Squats with those big compound movements are best obviously.

Pretty much that's all you need is a lot of calories enough protein to satisfy your bodies anabolic needs and a lot of heavy lifting.

PO9
9/13/2005 3:36pm,
:eusa_wall

King Sleepless
9/13/2005 4:16pm,
Thanks, I knew if I went on a suicide run, someone would try to stop me.

I aint punchy!?
9/13/2005 4:44pm,
I used to do a similar kind of work out. Basically I would hit the gym three times a week for an hour and a half. Do about 10 different exercises, 4 sets, 8-12 reps until exhaustion. After some initial gains I didn't put on much mass -- but gained strength.

Then I realised that if you want mass less is more. You want to do fewer sets and more weight. And focus on a good recovery period. I now do 3 weights sessions a week but do them in 45 minutes. Each session focuses on a different muscle group (e.g. shoulders, chest+back, legs). I've made more weight gains by having this approach than several years doing the 'all in one and lots of sets' approach.

ToofLess
9/13/2005 5:17pm,
You want only squats, deadlifts, bench press, and maybe some hang/clean, body weight-plus pull-ups, maybe some upright cable rows for your biceps (flare your elbows out to the sides instead of keeping them tight). Forget isolation exercises, they're useless. I bet you can curl the hell out of some dumbbells, but your arms don't get any bigger anymore.

Do 5 sets of 5 reps each and lift HEAVY. Meaning if your 1 rep max is 160 (it's more if you're actually working out with 160), you should be lifting 5x5 at 140-145, and resting 2 full minutes between sets. You're looking to train your fast-twitch muscles almost exclusively, which will hypertrophy more and give you more strength, so fewer reps than the 8-12 usually perscribed (which is fine for people who don't have the kind of trouble you do putting on weight).

Pick two exercises per workout and hit them hard (bench, squats), then ease up on two or three more (deadlifts, cleans, back rows, abs). Never, ever use a machine. No Smith rack. No goddamn lat pulldowns. Do pullups instead. You need to train your nervous system to handle overload, which means you need to beat on it hard for one day, then rest hard the next. When you do your abs, use weights and keep the reps low. You can condition later. Meat now, cardio later.

The resting thing is key, man; get plenty of sleep, drink water, and (to quote Osiris, I believe) eat, bitch! Eat like you're trying to out-Kirstie Alley Kirstie Alley. You should never, ever be hungry again, god as your witness. Take weight gainer shakes for a while; don't worry about the fat and sugar, you have other problems to deal with for now. Get a couple cartons of EggBeaters and eat the hell out of them, with spinach and veggies as an omelet or whatever. It's really easy for ectos to overtrain, thereby diminishing results by burning off muscle by pushing too hard.

This put on about 15 pounds for me in about, oh, 8-9 weeks. No real new fat, mostly muscle. Now, it's only fair to say I'm still a skinny punk (5'9", 155-160), but I brought that up from 135-140 doing this.

Fact is, you're probably an ecto-hardgainer, and you have to train different than the rest of these folks just to break even, weightwise. You'll be happier when you're 40 and still cut, though.

Good luck -- putting it on can be a bitch, but you'll be stoked when you see the numbers go up. Bottom line: lift heavier, eat more, do less.

Nid
9/13/2005 5:25pm,
:eusa_wall

lawdog
9/13/2005 7:02pm,
Okay first of all before you screw your liver up. You don't need to be eating anywhere NEAR that much protein. Your body can only process 1.5 g's per KG of bodyweight anabollically. Everything else if broken down and used for energy. So after you have covered that base amount of protein everything else if Calories. Preferablly from complex carbs.
Actually I think that roughly 200 grms. is what he should be consuming if he's lifting hard.


Creatine doesn't make you lift more it just makes your muscles recover quicker so you need to be doing more sets.
That's not accurate. It increases both power and endurance. Your max will go up as well as your reps.

I suggest lifting 5 days a week personally but if you don't have that kind of time to dedicate to it then that's totally understandable.
Frequency depends on a lot of factors. Many people, myself included do best working each muscle group twice a week. I do an entire body workout in a little less than an hour, twice a week.


Stuff like Deadlifts and Squats with those big compound movements are best obviously.
That crucial. Squats, Deadlifts, Military Press, Bench Press(or dips) and Pullups should be the staples of your workout.

Quikfeet509
9/13/2005 9:08pm,
What worked for me was volume. I was training as a bodybuilder and pretty much ignored my MA...oops, but it worked. I did 2 body parts a day, 4 exercises per body part, 4 sets per exercise with 10/8/6/4 rep scheme, 5 days a week. And after every session, I ate real food. Usually chicken finger combo meal with homestyle fries and a coke from Arby's.

Another thing that helps: a good lifting partner. My first was was knowledgable and competititve, but he also gave a **** about my progression. I did the same. It is important to have somebody that can talk **** to you and make you lift heavier, but will also make sure you have good form.



Watch the 25th anniversary edition of Pumping Iron. That's all you need. Oh, and don't forget to eat.

Thaiboxerken
9/13/2005 9:14pm,
How old are you, Sirc? It's relevant, trust me.

Also, for mass gain, I recommend training like a powerlifter and not spending more than 30 minutes at the gym lifting.

Eat more, but what was said before about protein is right on. You don't need that much protein.

**** the supplements, you don't need them if you eat right and they will only help to empty your wallet.

**** good lifting partners, they don't exist. Ask people at the gym to spot you.

AthleticGirl
9/13/2005 9:22pm,
Geez Louise, guys....geez louise......

VikingPower
9/13/2005 9:54pm,
You want only squats, deadlifts, bench press, and maybe some hang/clean, body weight-plus pull-ups, maybe some upright cable rows for your biceps (flare your elbows out to the sides instead of keeping them tight). Forget isolation exercises, they're useless. I bet you can curl the hell out of some dumbbells, but your arms don't get any bigger anymore.

Do 5 sets of 5 reps each and lift HEAVY. Meaning if your 1 rep max is 160 (it's more if you're actually working out with 160), you should be lifting 5x5 at 140-145, and resting 2 full minutes between sets. You're looking to train your fast-twitch muscles almost exclusively, which will hypertrophy more and give you more strength, so fewer reps than the 8-12 usually perscribed (which is fine for people who don't have the kind of trouble you do putting on weight).

Pick two exercises per workout and hit them hard (bench, squats), then ease up on two or three more (deadlifts, cleans, back rows, abs). Never, ever use a machine. No Smith rack. No goddamn lat pulldowns. Do pullups instead. You need to train your nervous system to handle overload, which means you need to beat on it hard for one day, then rest hard the next. When you do your abs, use weights and keep the reps low. You can condition later. Meat now, cardio later.

The resting thing is key, man; get plenty of sleep, drink water, and (to quote Osiris, I believe) eat, bitch! Eat like you're trying to out-Kirstie Alley Kirstie Alley. You should never, ever be hungry again, god as your witness. Take weight gainer shakes for a while; don't worry about the fat and sugar, you have other problems to deal with for now. Get a couple cartons of EggBeaters and eat the hell out of them, with spinach and veggies as an omelet or whatever. It's really easy for ectos to overtrain, thereby diminishing results by burning off muscle by pushing too hard.

This put on about 15 pounds for me in about, oh, 8-9 weeks. No real new fat, mostly muscle. Now, it's only fair to say I'm still a skinny punk (5'9", 155-160), but I brought that up from 135-140 doing this.

Fact is, you're probably an ecto-hardgainer, and you have to train different than the rest of these folks just to break even, weightwise. You'll be happier when you're 40 and still cut, though.

Good luck -- putting it on can be a bitch, but you'll be stoked when you see the numbers go up. Bottom line: lift heavier, eat more, do less.

I like this guy, though I say overhead presses more than upright rows. TBK is on a good track too. Basically stick to compound exercises and eat everything in sight that's reasonably healthy, plus get plenty of sleep (take a nap during the day too if you can). Build your weight up naturally before you begin pumping yourself up with that garbage.

lawdog
9/13/2005 10:02pm,
I agree about the supplements, at least the creatine. I wouldn't bother.

As for protein powder, I'd only take it if you're unable to eat 5 or 6 "real" meals a day. Real food is a much better way to go,

Poop Loops
9/13/2005 10:38pm,
How old are you, Sirc? It's relevant, trust me.

Also, for mass gain, I recommend training like a powerlifter and not spending more than 30 minutes at the gym lifting.

Eat more, but what was said before about protein is right on. You don't need that much protein.

**** the supplements, you don't need them if you eat right and they will only help to empty your wallet.

**** good lifting partners, they don't exist. Ask people at the gym to spot you.

I'd go with TBK on this one, seein' as he was a body builder and his way saves you time and money. How can you lose?

PL

Quikfeet509
9/13/2005 11:53pm,
**** good lifting partners, they don't exist. Ask people at the gym to spot you.


Bullshit. The reason why you never had a good lifting partner is probably because you're...ah nevermind. That's too easy.


What do you think will work better: having a partner that is familiar with you helping spot only when you really need it, or some jackass you grab at the gym to help spot that will probably help too much or not possibly not enough?

Thaiboxerken
9/14/2005 12:02am,
Good luck finding a partner that will actually train according to a regular schedule.