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View Full Version : Is aliveness addictive? Hell yeah.



Virus
9/08/2005 6:15am,
Just got back from my third jujitsu class and it was the best one yet. We started the class with some techniques, partner compliant drills and stuff. The it comes time for some standup randori to intergrate those techniqes into our game. This is the sort of stuff I had been waiting for.

I found that I was no pushover in alive, competitive grappling. People got techniqes on me and I pulled of some stuff too. I did two good hip throws on this dude, I could just feel that it was the right way to move at the time and WHAM! he hits the mat with my ribs digging into his diaphram pushing the air out of him. No effort, no strength. It was a great feeling. Also pulled off some sacrifice throws. I walked out of the gym high as a kite on aliveness, my heart was racing and most of all I was glad that I didn't walk into that dojo and shame my original art (Bujinkan) by getting thrown around like a little bitch. Can't wait for my next fix.

So in conclusion... OMG! aliveness pwns!

One thing though, when we were doing the techniques at the beginning we did a type of hip throw from an arm drag. I was paired up with a kinda chunky dude and I found it really hard to get a clean throw off. I find the same thing in my BJK training when I try it on a fat guy. When the guy is not fat, and a little taller than me I find I can do a clean hip throw. Do other people find that fatties make it difficult to throw?

sivari
9/08/2005 6:39am,
I'm fat and no one has ever thrown me properly. Maybe I should ask my instructor do it so I won't get hurt badly when it happens.

Anyone wanna enlighten me, what are sacrifice throws?

Virus
9/08/2005 6:55am,
Sacrifice throws (sutemi waza) are when you fall to the ground yourself when you throw, for example the rolling stomach throw. (think Ken and Ryu's throws with hard kick in Street Fighter.) They are called "sacrifice throws" becuase you are sacrificing your ability to stand up and fight in order to complete the throw. They can be quite scary to have them done on you, becuase you have no choice but to fall straight to the ground under their control.

Ronin
9/08/2005 7:27am,
Being alive is very addictive, it sure beast the alternative.

The Bad Place
9/08/2005 7:53am,
Typical ill-informed bullshido posting...when was the last time YOU were dead?

Ronin
9/08/2005 8:12am,
Typical ill-informed bullshido posting...when was the last time YOU were dead?


Just awhile back, as a matter of fact, and though it was a tad liberating, I found the lack of decent conversation a tad boring, so, yes, alive is better than dead.

Sophist
9/08/2005 8:17am,
They can be quite scary to have them done on you, becuase you have no choice but to fall straight to the ground under their control.

Um. I'm not sure how to take this statement. Could you clarify this for me please? Surely any throw that hits right leaves you with no option but to fall straight to the ground? And sacrifice throws that don't hit exactly spot-on right tend to leave a skilled opponent with plenty of choice in the matter, in my experience...

Virus
9/08/2005 9:06am,
Um. I'm not sure how to take this statement. Could you clarify this for me please? Surely any throw that hits right leaves you with no option but to fall straight to the ground? And sacrifice throws that don't hit exactly spot-on right tend to leave a skilled opponent with plenty of choice in the matter, in my experience...

Yeah it's hard to describe. I can only talk about having my BJK intructor do them on me but it feels like you can't do a neat breakfall and that you have to fall face, or shoulder first into the ground. We have a throw called temakura (Hand Pillow) and it involves a sort of spiral body twist as you lie down with the opponents arm in a bar. Hard to describe by words, sorry. But if the uke's ukemi is not good then they can get hurt doing it as you can't control your breakfall. A blackbelt did it on a white belt at a place I trained at once and speared his shoulder into the floor, breaking the clavicle. It's even worse when people pull it on you suddenly and you don't have time to think about your ukemi.

The sutemi waza i did during randori at jujutsu doesn;t have a name, I just deliberatly fell down and blocked the guys leg when he grabbed me and tried to push me back :tongue11:

patfromlogan
9/08/2005 10:05am,
Dunno that, but I sure try to incorporate it into every workout.

Sophist
9/08/2005 10:08am,
Yeah it's hard to describe. I can only talk about having my BJK intructor do them on me but it feels like you can't do a neat breakfall and that you have to fall face, or shoulder first into the ground.

Depends on the sacrifice throw; some are like that (tomoe-nage, sumi-gaeshi, various drop kataguruma variants, etc), some aren't (tani-otoshi, yoko-gake, yoko-otoshi, tawara-gaeshi, etc).

Anyway, don't confuse a throw being nasty to breakfall from with it being hard to escape from. But the more randori you do, and the better the quality of the people you train against, the better you'll come to know that... Congratulations on stepping up and sparring.

For my money, the really nasty throws are the makikomis and harai/uchimata versions in which you land heavily on your opponent's chest or head as he hits the ground.


The sutemi waza i did during randori at jujutsu doesn;t have a name, I just deliberatly fell down and blocked the guys leg when he grabbed me and tried to push me back

Um. I'm not sure that really counts as a throw. Sounds like you fell down and dragged someone else down too when he came close enough...

Well done with the hip throws though. What flavour of jujitsu is it? "Japanese" or Brazilian? And do they not spar every session?

Virus
9/08/2005 5:33pm,
It's Japanese based jujitsu, but very modern and streamlined. Gis are optional, and I don't think there are belts. The instructor fought in Pancrase and Shooto so I think he's emphasising the stuff that would be found in the ring. This is the first class we did randori in, the other 2 I did finished up with some sort of competitive ground drill.

Oh, and don't be dissin' my sacrifice throws ;)

"Anyway, don't confuse a throw being nasty to breakfall from with it being hard to escape from."

Good Point.

StranglersGhost
9/08/2005 5:55pm,
The thing is despite all the training I did and how confident I felt in the gym outside on the street all that confidence goes away as people dont take their time developing technique and feeling each other out but go all out to kill and it is alot more strengh rather than conditioning based. They will grab your clothes, etc. slam you to the ground or wall, etc. One guy I had a baskebtall disagreement with put his forearm on my hip to show I fouled him and pushed me back quite hard and I instantly felt his strengh and that he could probably kick my ass (not to mention he was more agressive than me) despite my training.

thugs can intimidate you physiologically so theyll beat you before the fight even starts. And they are good at fronting and posturing. There was actually an article in blackbelt I think last month or the month before where bar brawlers would intimidate their victims and sucker punch them as they are cowering in fear. fear, shame, self hate, and inferiority complexes is what most martists are.

The Bad Place
9/09/2005 2:31am,
Just awhile back, as a matter of fact, and though it was a tad liberating, I found the lack of decent conversation a tad boring, so, yes, alive is better than dead.
My Mistake! OSU!

Virus
9/09/2005 2:34am,
Ghost, I think we are all well aware that there is a world of difference between a wrestling match and a street fight. At no point did I ever believe that I am now t3h d3adly because I threw a few guys in a randori session, sorry if I made that impression.

patfromlogan
9/10/2005 12:11pm,
The thing is despite all the training I did and how confident I felt in the gym outside on the street all that confidence goes away as people dont take their time developing technique and feeling each other out but go all out to kill and it is alot more strengh rather than conditioning based. They will grab your clothes, etc. slam you to the ground or wall, etc. One guy I had a baskebtall disagreement with put his forearm on my hip to show I fouled him and pushed me back quite hard and I instantly felt his strengh and that he could probably kick my ass (not to mention he was more agressive than me) despite my training.

thugs can intimidate you physiologically so theyll beat you before the fight even starts. And they are good at fronting and posturing. There was actually an article in blackbelt I think last month or the month before where bar brawlers would intimidate their victims and sucker punch them as they are cowering in fear. fear, shame, self hate, and inferiority complexes is what most martists are.
Well I first learned karate in a school where small black belts could beat the **** out of big aggressive guys. And if for some reason they couldn't, they would have left in shame. Looking back I know I was lucky to have found a real non Bullshido dojo, where people fought hard and trained hard.

I know the feelings you mention in your post. I used to have them and once when I was drunk and "fought" a college football player it became clear that I could loose. But I really didn't get hurt and it's because of training like Kyokushin where you kinda get used to getting hit and learn techniques that enable you to "take" it, move with it, or at least avoid injury. Of course he wasn't a psychopath out to kill me, just punch me out!

You might look at what you are training in. If you were in Honolulu I'd tell you to check out the Kajukenbo Self Defense Institute where they had no problem taking a much heavier larger black belt (me) and flipping him into standing arm bars with knee crushing head type moves. I think that if you train "alive" you will get a high degree of fighting skills. If you also train in sd, you should be able to have the confidence on the street. I teach kids and women things like head butts and front snap kicks. It takes a long time and is a lot of work, but eventually a little 14 year old can snap a couple boards with a front kick or with a left jab and I tell them in sd, they won't have to fight in any way fairly and imagine that blow that just went through the boards kicking some asshole's shin, or the left jab connecting fast to a nose or throat.