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MArketing
3/24/2003 10:11pm,
Hey, I'd like to tell my story about the ultimate McDojo, "Temple Kung-Fu" web: www.templekungfu.com. Here's a franchise that is poised to take a monopoly on the McDojo world.

The founder is known as 'His Holiness the Dalai Seng-Shi, Successor to the 23rd Tookien Temple, Celestial Grand Master O.E. Simon.' He's in his seventies now and rarely if ever visits any of his studios. His background is more than questionable in regards to lineage, but he does have some legitamate background in competition. Regardless, this company is now run by a series of 'masters' and uses barely legal contracts to extract HUGE amounts of money from it's students under the pretence that they are recieving second-to-none instruction in 'Traditional Shaolin Kung-Fu'.

In the Martial Arts Community TKF is a laughing stock.

The ideal student to them is someone with no prior knowledge of the Martial Arts, at which time they set up an initial interview when the Chief instructor tells the prospective student if they train hard they can attain their 'Black Belt' in as little as 2 years. Then the initial cost of a couple hundred + uniform is agreed upon and contract #1 is signed.

The next stage is the 'orange belt program' another contract, another 6-8 hundred dollars.

The next stage (within 6 weeks of first joining--important to secure the funds before the student realizes what's up) is the 'Kung-Fu Club' where the student will be taught 'deadly knowledge' and contract #3 is signed, an 'oath' is taken, and 2 to 3 thousand dollars is then taken from the student. Plus pretty new uniform, of course.

The NEXT stage...oh there's LOTS more, is 'Sparring Club', yours for only 6 to 8 hundred per year.....You got it 'Plus uniform'.

The next stage is called 'Pai Hu Shih'. Translation is debatable, but it's sold as 'White Tiger Style' at which point the student is told that every thing he/she was taught previously is WRONG, and NOW he/she will be taught real 'Kung-Fu'. Unfortunately, it takes on average 3 to 5 years to get this far (not to mention THOUSANDS of dollars).

Whatever the next stage is is legendary, and many stories abound of that, but the reality is you're so deeply involved with the McDojo by then that you're a franchisee.

Added to the 'Extra Value Menu' of Temple Kung-Fu is various meditation seminars at 200 bucks-a-pop, many books written by 'His Holiness' (which I challenge anyone with an I.Q. over 75 to make it through just one without gagging on the run-on sentences), extremely high pressure sales tactics, and substandard training.

The worst of it is Temple Kung-Fu doesn't give a rat's @$$ whether or not the students go out and try what they've learned and get killed...They just want their money right away. They offer a 'discount' for upfront payment of contracts. Not to the mention that the contracts themselves are carefully worded to ensure no possibility of a refund if any more than about one third of the contract is attended by the student.

If you've checked out the website (again www.templekungfu.com), you may have noticed the newest McMeal deal "KUNGROBICS". 'Nuff said.

Temple Kung-Fu is nothing more than a fitness centre under the guise of a self-defense system, and there are more P.O.'ed ex-student out there than you can shake a stick at. After all they've got locations all over Canada and the US. Check out the site for disgruntled ex-Temple Kung-Fu students:

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/205613

I've seen some horrible McDojo's 'bullshido.us', but I haven't seen anything that begins to compare to the Grand Master of McDojos....Temple Kung-Fu.

Omega Supreme
3/24/2003 10:16pm,
ahem, legally speaking I wouldn't make any direct charges such as you've done. Saying somebody is full of **** and this is your opinion is one thing be careful who what you say though.

Besides that this has been done before and they still have a long ways to go to touch the ATA. (ducking now), but IMO yeah they're full of ****.

Go away I'm talking to myself

Blad3
3/24/2003 10:26pm,
seems like a Bullshido, but just says you think it is, and show us - try *NOT* to imply indivisual people, unless it's from personal experince and you're * not * trying to disrespect them in any way <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Mercurius
3/24/2003 11:55pm,
Grow some balls, you two. He can back it up, and any accusations of libel by Olaf Simon will go either one of two ways:

1) His charges would have no effect on Simon's business, and thus are not legally libel
2) His charges can be shown to have an effect on Simon's business, but can be proven true by a compilation of anecdotal evidence, and thus are not legally libel

If we're going to get anywhere in this fight, we're going to have to take off the kid gloves and start pissing people off, starting at the top with friggin Ray Kroc here.

Punisher
3/25/2003 12:04am,
If people are willing to spend money to buy a crappy product, it's not the manufacturers fault. They are just providing what the public wants. The best way to get rid of a McDojo is to not give them money. I personally put more responsibility on the McStudents, and I say the more the merrier. It just increases the chance that the next person I fight wonít know what heís doing and thatís okay with me.

Mercurius
3/25/2003 12:25am,
I agree entirely Punisher, but I must submit that that statement does not apply in this situation. If people keep flocking to Tae Kwon Do without once thinking, "Will this REALLY work in a fight?", more power to them if they enjoy what they're doing.

This situation, however, has all the characteristics of egregious bait-and-switch fraud, as opposed to people providing and others patronizing a product known to be inferior.

Blad3
3/25/2003 8:57am,
<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

whatever, I was influenced by that previous post, wasn't really thinking/tired <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

MArketing
3/25/2003 10:46am,
Hey, I'm AM only giving my opinion, which I ask you to consider. If you check out the disgruntled student page http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/205613 , you'll see that my opinion is far from the only one.

Temple Kung-Fu is very much the 'bait-and-switch' fraud. Again, it's geared toward people with NO MA background, so they have no objective opinion on whether or not the place is legit.

Think about it...'Kungrobics'??? McDojo.

Omega Supreme
3/25/2003 1:38pm,
ah, there goes that word again. "Fraud" has to be proven. I would go with, "bullshit charletons **** head car salesman" in my opinion. I'm not going to charge you for the freee legal advise.

Go away I'm talking to myself

PizDoff
3/25/2003 5:41pm,
lol

Kungrobics is a disgusting sounding word anyways.....

--
Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed later.
No brain, no gain.

Fighty McGee
3/25/2003 6:17pm,
Temple Kung Fu has always been on my list as an "Oom Yung Don't!"

*Drumroll*Cymbals*

*crickets*

KC Elbows
3/25/2003 7:27pm,
Nice.

I gotta remember that one.

FingerorMoon?
3/25/2003 7:37pm,
I had a look at the forum MArketing listed above.

My heard hurts.

--------
Make friends with them until they beg for mercy.
--------

MArketing
3/26/2003 10:46am,
The following is taken from Alberta Court Transcripts when an ex-franchisee R. Shergold sued O.E. Simon:

"Q- ...The title His Holiness the Dalais Seng Shi is that a title that has been conferred on you by someone?
A- Assumed title, how do you say, totally self-invented, sir.
Q- Thank you for your candor.
A- For certain reasons if you want me to go into that.
Q- If you feel that is germane to this please do.
A- Well the Buddhist compared to the Christians and especially North America where I feel less privileged, and it was difficult for them to -- they didn't have the courage to actually match that image with let's say the Pope. The Pope, they call the Pope His Holiness, and nobody else -- the Dalai Lama finally I think they afford him the courtesy that you call him His Holiness. But the question is who is more holy, the man who has 800 million people or a man who has only 200 members, so I would then submit that the Pope is 800 million times more holy than I am."
"Q- I have also seen reference to you styled as Grand Master Simon. Is that a title that is particular to Kung Fu?
A- You know, I think this most likely could apply to anyone who has made a name for himself over maybe half a century.
Q- In the martial arts?
A- I don't know if there are masters somewhere else. In music there are none I guess. Maybe there are.
Q- Your status as a Grand Master that is in Kung Fu, is it?
A- Yes.
Q- Now, was that a level that was awarded to you by someone, and if so who?
A- One claims that. One claims that. Now, in antiquity one would claim and the other master not liking that would come and either clean your clock or take over this -- they were a rather primitive people. As a matter of fact you will see that I was the first Grand Master in North America. After I called myself a Grand Master everybody was one or they became one."

And there's plenty more quotes. I especially like the one about his 'black belt' and how he "sort of 'tied it around'". Judge for yourself.

Balloonknot
3/26/2003 12:35pm,
Fraud and BULLSHIDO.

Omega Supreme
3/26/2003 3:29pm,
Balloonknot. I'm ashamed on you (sarcasm dripping from tongue). How dare you call these **** head low mother fuckers fraud. What have they done except made people believe what they wanted to. If you were to walk into these asswipe's dojo (or whatever they call it) of course you would know they were full of ****. But why would they be called frauds? What have they done that is legally wrong?

I've gone into TKD schools and they spout off on the Ancient self defense art of Taekwondo only to find out from my friend that TKD has only been around for about 50 years.

We've got one instructor in our town who is a 10th degree blackbelt. He teaches fighters throughout the nation. He made his system up.

So just because these poor soles were not wise enough to hold on to there money does that make the temple a fraud? Bullshit con artist maybe but not frauds.

Go away I'm talking to myself