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Apostol
7/23/2005 3:55pm,
So anyway, today they had a JJJ seminar at my school. I came right before the lunch break, so I didn't witness the entire seminar.

During the lunch break, my MT instructor, his wife and I worked on multiple attacker stuff. Two people held pads, and charged at me, and I thai-kicked them in the legs while using evasional footwork and the like. Nothing complex or t3h d34dly. Then, my instructor's wife (who is a black belt in krotty) did the drill, and did OK at it.

Next, my instructor and his wife did t3h gr4pple. My instructor armbarred her and kneebarred her a bunch of times, and she was trying girly tactic crap like biting and hair pulling, and it obviously didn't work. It was funny.

Afterwards, they did some knife defense. She demonstrated some crappy knife defense where against a front stab, you grab their wrist with both hands, and force the knife to the ground (lol). So anyway, she tried it on my instructor, and he simply grabbed the knife with his other hand and stabbed her a dozen times. She did this about 20 times and it never worked one time. Then she complained, "Blah blah, it worked on sensei so and so a million times."

So then the seminar came, and the instructor was some puerto-rican grandmaster with a million dans. I have three words for you, arm grabs galore. It was all a bunch of, "If he grabs your wrist, do this, and this, and then this." It was pretty obvious the seminar was one of those "These aren't techniques you'd do on t3h str33t, but a demonstation of "t3h principles". So as we progressed through the seminar, we did a bunch of defenses against the arm grab, and the put them in a wrist/shoulder/standing armbar which allowed them to hit you in the face with the other hand.

All in all, it was a complete waste of my time.

Wounded Ronin
7/23/2005 3:56pm,
Good thing the knife disarm worked on master so and so.

CanucKyokushin
7/23/2005 4:26pm,
d34dly. Then, my instructor's wife (who is a black belt in krotty) did the drill, and did OK at it.

Next, my instructor and his wife did t3h gr4pple. My instructor armbarred her and kneebarred her a bunch of times, and she was trying girly tactic crap like biting and hair pulling, and it obviously didn't work. It was funny.

Afterwards, they did some knife defense. She demonstrated some crappy knife defense where against a front stab, you grab their wrist with both hands, and force the knife to the ground (lol). So anyway, she tried it on my instructor, and he simply grabbed the knife with his other hand and stabbed her a dozen times. She did this about 20 times and it never worked one time. Then she complained, "Blah blah, it worked on sensei so and so a million times."

So then the seminar came, and the instructor was some puerto-rican grandmaster with a million dans. I have three words for you, arm grabs galore. It was all a bunch of, "If he grabs your wrist, do this, and this, and then this." It was pretty obvious the seminar was one of those "These aren't techniques you'd do on t3h str33t, but a demonstation of "t3h principles".
.Sounds like there could be trouble in the bedroom.

How much did you pay for it?

Which style does your Krotty teacher's wife do?

There a lot of hand grabs and twist or the attacker’s arms to very high positions, I'll bet. Although, I'm a believer that a person should learn every technique he can find, there is just some stuff that aren't effective if you're dealing with some crazy guy.

feedback
7/23/2005 5:14pm,
You know what else is a complete waste of time? Putting numbers instead of letters in words like "street", "deadly", and "grapple" trying to be funny.

Apostol
7/23/2005 5:21pm,
Sounds like there could be trouble in the bedroom.

How much did you pay for it?

Which style does your Krotty teacher's wife do?

There a lot of hand grabs and twist or the attacker’s arms to very high positions, I'll bet. Although, I'm a believer that a person should learn every technique he can find, there is just some stuff that aren't effective if you're dealing with some crazy guy.

I paid nothing, heh.

My teacher's wife is a 3rd degree BB in Shorei-Goju Ryu Karate. She wasn't THAT bad, but her knife defense technique was awful and her grappling wasn't very good (not surprising).

"t3h d34dly" "t3h gr4pple", and "t3h str33t", emphasize the humor in it.

sui generis
7/23/2005 5:37pm,
Saying that certain techniques are not for real use, since they are to show a certain principal is a cool excuse for their crappyness - good one :biggrin:

SYB
7/23/2005 6:13pm,
I wrote a nice reply but then my browser crashed (POS).

Sorry to hear you wasted your time with this.

Fantasy Warrior
7/23/2005 7:15pm,
Odd, seeing as standing defenses against grabs are what you need in the majority of situations.
I simply don't agree on this point mate -what empirical evidence are you citing? Even when someone is grabbed, it is rarely static as was implied in the original post. Someone grabbing your lapels a moment before they headbutt you is not a matter of "standing defences against grabs" etc.

Wounded Ronin
7/23/2005 8:08pm,
For the record, I must disagree with Osiris. "Krotty" is funny. It may even be t3h funny.

feedback
7/23/2005 8:12pm,
It was funny when it was first created, like all terrible things. I bet the holocaust started as a practical joke.

Apostol
7/23/2005 8:17pm,
Osiris, no one is going to stand there like an idiot if you're trying to break their arm.

Fantasy Warrior
7/23/2005 8:30pm,
See, you're looking at it in terms of preludes to a fight. I'm looking at it in terms of miscommunication or intimidation. If someone is grabbing you and hitting you, that **** won't work. However, if someone is looming over you during discussion, gently guiding you towards another location, keeping you in their presence via handshake or performing some other vaugely threatning action, various locks allow you to gently remove their grip, sending a strong message to back the **** up, all the while not obligating them to fight you like a punch to the face does. But yes, if someone is using the grip in question to beat your head in, you need to respond with greater force than taekwondo/hapkido lock #6.
We can all hypothosise situations where such grip escapes may be useful to justify them as "self-defence", but experience suggests that such "intimidation grips" just aren't that common. And at any rate, doing your twisty wristy party trick would merely be esculating the situation.

If they have already crossed the boundery from patronising (non-immediate phyical threat) into verbal abuse (more likely an immediate phyical threat) when they grip you, then, ...well, you shouldn't let them grip you in the first place, and if they do smack them hard. Sod twisty wristy crap.

IMO

SYB
7/23/2005 9:01pm,
My instructor can "perfectly" apply a "standing arm bar / wrist lock / whatever it was referred to" in a split second... faster than a punch can reach him, mostly because of how he uses his balance, his opponent's balance, and position to avoid it. Not to mention, a properly applied grab technique will take your opponent's balance while placing yourself for any multitude of take down, strike, whatever.

Basically, if you are good enough to use them, grab techniques are efficient counters in a multitude of situations. Again, the way that most of you picture in your mind as to how they are practiced is (at my school at least) how beginners familiarize themselves with the technique (with instruction). Eventually they are practiced in sparring, at full speed, with the punches and counters coming.

Oh, and these techniques have also been quite effective in sparring with students of other schools and arts. It's not just a "we stand face to face and grab each other with no resistance and throw ourselves on the ground and OMG IT WORKS" situation.

I'm just babbling because this seems to be going towards a bashing of grab techniques implying that they are a complete waste of time.

Apostol
7/23/2005 11:23pm,
I don't doubt that standing armbars and the like work. I practice JJJ myself. However, the techniques I went through at the seminar involved standing right in front of him while trying to apply a lock, with his free hand ready to punch you in the face or his foot to kick you in the groin.

CanucKyokushin
7/23/2005 11:28pm,
Sounds like the same techniques I'm thought in Kyokushin.I know how you feel man.I get fed-up with them myself.

Poop Loops
7/23/2005 11:42pm,
Afterwards, they did some knife defense. She demonstrated some crappy knife defense where against a front stab, you grab their wrist with both hands, and force the knife to the ground (lol). So anyway, she tried it on my instructor, and he simply grabbed the knife with his other hand and stabbed her a dozen times. She did this about 20 times and it never worked one time. Then she complained, "Blah blah, it worked on sensei so and so a million times."

Did Master So and So not have a second arm or something?

PL