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DCS
5/20/2005 9:50pm,
No way


Well, before you type out that e-mail challenging me to a sparring match, a duel, a brawl, or a fight for your sacred honor, please don't. I don't settle my disagreements with violence if I can help it. I don't accept fair fights. I don't enjoy brawling with people. I don't see fighting as a game or as a sport. I'm not a competitor, an athlete, or a public figure. I'm just a regular citizen who doesn't go around stepping into rings or onto mats with other regular citizens to settle stupid arguments.


The Challenge (http://www.themartialist.com/challenge.htm)

beka
5/20/2005 9:56pm,
I think a number of us have already read that.

Olorin
5/20/2005 10:51pm,
Ya this has been around for a while now. I even sent him an editorial challenge (not the one I posted for review, but a different one). He responded by email but never posted it on his website.

Sam Browning
5/21/2005 12:01am,
Actually given his public pronouncements it is my considered legal opinion that he is a public figure, at least in terms of his role within martial arts because he had gone out of his way to publish information about the martialist and himself in the public rhelm.

Phrost
5/21/2005 8:30am,
Yes, but in Phil's world, if he says something it's true based on his writing ability.

king of seals
5/21/2005 8:56am,
http://www.themartialist.com/images/winterphil-avatar.jpg


It'll be a cold day in Hell in before we meet in a challenge match.

Lights Out
5/21/2005 8:44pm,
Do you guys think Phil suspects that if he would ever fight a skilled opponent, even with no rules at all, he would get his ass handed to him? I mean, this could be an explanation on that long editorial.

Slaapaav
5/22/2005 8:35am,
maybe..?

Olorin
5/22/2005 10:30pm,
Do you guys think Phil suspects that if he would ever fight a skilled opponent, even with no rules at all, he would get his ass handed to him? I mean, this could be an explanation on that long editorial.

But to Phil, no rules means guns, knives, and other weapons. He would never accept a no-rules (no weapons) match, as that is not in the spirit of “martialism.“ He would also not accept a weapons fight, what sane person would. To Phil any fight is to the death, and to train with rules is a waste of time, as a fight to the death has no rules. So, he thinks in absolutes. Any rules to allow for safe sparing and aliveness training are discarded as not “real” self-defense. What I think is really going on with Phil is a felling of insecurity and inadequacy. He probably never fells truly safe. As a result, he has created a fantasy world that if attacked, he would respond with deadly ferocity, and that he would do what others are unwilling to do to win the fight. What he does not understand is that to know a move or technique means very little, you must know how and when to apply the move and the only way to learn that is by aliveness and sport fighting MA. I know from my own experience that I learned many throws and ground fighting techniques that I liked but had to discard them when I found that they were not effective for me during sparing. I then concentrated on what moves do work for me. This is something that Phil will never learn as he does not train this way. He has no way to learn what works and what does not. But what truly vexes me is why he feels so unsafe. He is not a small man! Who would see him and say “I want to mug that guy” or start a fight with him. He is not the kind of target a criminal looks for. He is in reality very safe but in his mind, he sees a world full of criminal predators all waiting to pounce.

(To be read with your best Jerry Springer “Final Thoughts” impersonation)

“Take care of yourselves, and each other”

El-Wood
5/22/2005 11:16pm,
I hate to take Phil's side on this but what sort of idiot tries to go settle arguements with physical violence?

I thought we had pretty much established that that sort of thing plays well in the movies but will get you a cellmate who's nickname is "The Big Bad Booty Bandit" IRL...

JohnnyCache
5/22/2005 11:44pm,
Well, if the argument is about martial arts working, physical violence is really the only practical way to settle it, is it not? I can insist I can pull off a one-punch KO routinely, until someone makes me prove it - I can even back it up with science and theory, saying it's obvious that I can generate enough force to do so, it's just common sense - but it ain't so.

Shadowdh
5/23/2005 3:46am,
So to accept his challenge of not fighting fair... this means I should just walk up to him and shoot him... mmmm wonder if you could do it with a paint ball gun and then shout "wheres the real kung fu now phil...!!!!!????" would be worth it to see his expression... oh and the big wet patch on his pants...

Wout
5/23/2005 7:08am,
Well, before you type out that e-mail challenging me to a sparring match, a duel, a brawl, or a fight for your sacred honor, please don't. I don't settle my disagreements with violence if I can help it. I don't accept fair fights. I don't enjoy brawling with people. I don't see fighting as a game or as a sport. I'm not a competitor, an athlete, or a public figure. I'm just a regular citizen who doesn't go around stepping into rings or onto mats with other regular citizens to settle stupid arguments.




????? I thought martial arts was about fighting, thus about physical violence.
It''s like a self proclaimed poker theorist who makes a lot of theories about how to play poker, but when it comes to playing poker to prove his theories, he just says: "I'm not gonna prove I'm right by playing a silly game".

OK maybe a total free sparring match as going toe to toe isn't really fair to what he's trying to establish and that's self-defense not head to head martial arts. But the Challenge that a skilled martial artist, would test his techniques with a sense of aliveness doesn't seem that farfetched or outrageous. I think his problem is his ego, if you claim to have teh deadly art to end all fights you can not do anything but win otherwise you and your art will be worthless. Most people in the other arts realise that it's a long path, in arts that spar people realise quickly that it'll be a long road of practice and sparring before thay can make a technique work, and that along the road they'll have their ass handed to them a thousand times by more expierienced practicioners. THe expierienced ones have also walked this road, they were able to put there ego aside and take the beating and thank for the lesson. If you claim to have found THE WAY and you're not in for a sparring match I would say you're just afraid your bubble will be burst.

I would say spar, you can prove that your system is good, if you believe in it. Even if you 'lose' an expierienced martial artist will see that there are good things to your art, that is offcourse if you believe in it.
Say 17 years old BJJ guy: about 4 year in the art, trains good, regularely, dedicated and is in a good dojol where he gets good guidance and sparring, goes on a friendly sparring session with a 30 years old Judo-person who was in the art from five years old, trained as hard as the BJJ guy but over a period of 25 years and has a lot of tourney expierience. I think it would be fair to say (even in the eyes of the BJJ-guys here) that the Judo person would almost own the BJJ-'boy'. But would the Judo person go as far as saying that BJJ is crap? No, if the BJJ guy is properly trained the 30 old will see that, he'll see that BJJ has a right to be called a martial art and that the dojo he traines him is worthwile. He won't put the guy of training BJJ, because the only thing the boy lacks in comparison is just expierience, so he'll probably encourage him to continue to train.

PS sorry for my rant

JohnnyCache
5/23/2005 7:52am,
????? I thought martial arts was about fighting, thus about physical violence.
It''s like a self proclaimed poker theorist who makes a lot of theories about how to play poker, but when it comes to playing poker to prove his theories, he just says: "I'm not gonna prove I'm right by playing a silly game".

PS sorry for my rant

I've made some guys like that. :icon_comp

Chris.B
5/23/2005 8:47am,
Give me a Desert Eagle and we'll get to see who wins the unfair fight.

Wout
5/23/2005 11:47am,
Give me a Desert Eagle and we'll get to see who wins the unfair fight.

OK seems fair we'll start about 1 mile from eachother on a desert plain..


OH yeah, little detail: I get a machine gun.