View Full Version : Steve Morris calls karate bullshido

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5/17/2005 6:58pm,
Steve Morris holds strong views on NHB/MMA/submission fighting as the ultimate combative sport, and in his opinion the best way of preparing for a hand-to-hand combat. I have purchased one of his training videos in the past and occasionally checkout his site for updates.

He has recently posted a response to an email he received from a karate guy. The reply is an interesting read calling karate bullshido from the early days of British karate to its historical links with Japanese ultranationalism and fascism.


5/17/2005 7:48pm,
I know nothing about Steve Morris and very little about martial arts history in Japan, but it doesn't take much of an expert to discern a very strong bias in that letter or whatever it is. Very very long.

For all I know he's probably right, but I didn't know Mas Oyama was a fraud and never cared to research into it. Wouldn't surprise me either way, but for terms of this discussion: Morris definately has some bones to pick and writes as such, rightly or wrongly

5/18/2005 8:42am,
maybe he should meet francisco filho and say that to him personally

5/18/2005 8:58am,
Was Mas Oyama a fraud? History Forum bullies please chime in on this.

5/18/2005 9:03am,
Interesting letter and view, and fairly typical of many people disilusioned by what THEY made karate to be and then found out what Karate really is.

A few things:

Morio Higaonna is NOT a man you wanna mess with, and he is a top notch Goju guy, perhaps one of the best in the world.

Oyama is more of a fraud NOW that he is dead, then he was when he was alive, get what I am saying?

Notice that these people NEVER mention current, well trained Karate fighters ?

Oriental MA fighting supermecy is bullshit, at one point it was true, but nowadays, anyone that tells you the Asians as better fighters because they train better/harder or whatever, is either on drugs or drinking monkey piss.

5/18/2005 9:13am,
Wow...what a whiner. I'm working on the historical references, but the vast majority of his missive can be boiled down to, "I don't get no respect!" Coupled with a healthy dose of, "Post-war Japan is filled with psychotic, violent nationalists!" The guy is making SWEEPING generalities about the extant "establishment" in karate with absolutely no solid proof to back it up.

I especially like this little number:

"I, like many people, found the treatment of Rodney King to be deplorable, but I know of some within the upper ranks of karate who'd got off on it and were big fans of the LAPD, not to mention racists."


There's more than a slight slant , some of which seems to be historical revisionism, some of which is simply anti-Japanese racist bullshit. Karate was formed during the Fascist era? My knowledge of the history of martial arts isn't sweeping, but I think that one deserves some proof.

I'll agree that Asia doesn't have a stranglehold on superior fighters these days, but I think that the letter is going waaaay beyond that assertion. Being disillusioned with the ineffectiveness of an art is understandable, but this is excessive.

5/18/2005 9:22am,
excessive as it may be, some of his points are true. Traditional martial arts, after being given the beatdown in the cage, have been slow to make changes to adapt and better themselves and most have sunk further into bullshido/mcdojo. The saddest part of it are the students, who don't even see what's happening or what their instructors/school owners are doing - I been tearing my hair out over at Karateforums.com posting on their UFC/NHB thread...

5/18/2005 9:27am,
I give on the points concerning adapting an art to make it functional and relevant--these were the parts of the letter I agreed with. If he had taken a deep breath and stopped there, more power; my response would have been of the, "Yes...and this is news?" variety. But there's some scary, bile-filled crap going on when he strays from those points. Doesn't make the good stuff any less true, but it does throw into doubt the motives of the writer.

5/18/2005 9:29am,
Is there any current MMA fighters who have trained karate? I know people used to hate judo but Karo Paryisian camealong and kicked ass.

5/18/2005 10:17am,
the Iceman

Is there any current MMA fighters who have trained karate? I know people used to hate judo but Karo Paryisian camealong and kicked ass.

It is Fake
5/18/2005 10:28am,
I find it funny that he pulls a bunch of weird racial crap together to make his point. So, what if a few LAPD officers liked what hapeened to RK? There were just as meany blacks rooting for OJ to be not guilty? It adds nothing to his argument. There are racists and bigots in every MA, doesn't make it fake. I never knew MasOyama killed bulls. I thought he broke the horns off. I also remember reading he was gored badly before.

Yeah, Ronin I know what you mean. Just like Bruce Lee.

5/18/2005 11:16am,
Is there any current MMA fighters who have trained karate? I know people used to hate judo but Karo Paryisian camealong and kicked ass.

ufc: chuck lidell, bas rutten (gives a lot of credit to kyokushin), saint pierre

pride: don't know

k1 (not exactly mma, but still): andy hug, francisco filho, nicholas pettas, glaube feitosa, mcdonalds(kyokushin background), sam greco

Wounded Ronin
5/18/2005 12:33pm,
So, in other words, he hates krotty because of a bunch of bad experiences tied with individual flakes. Greeaaat....

5/18/2005 1:15pm,
Was Mas Oyama a fraud? History Forum bullies please chime in on this.

You might want to check out the "Oyama Fighting Bulls" thread on that forum.

5/18/2005 1:21pm,
Oyama was a fraud only AFTER his death.

5/18/2005 2:50pm,
Pride: Bas Rutten (kyokushin)