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I aint punchy!?
5/14/2005 6:11am,
Just an open question... [Don't get riled... I'm not for or against this question... I'm just posing it as something for discussion :toothy9: ]


Based on recent(ish) data the incidence of multiple opponent violent attacks is quite high.

The table below shows the incidence of violent crime by category and broken down by the number of offenders.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cvus/current/cv0237.pdf

Note: the proportion of cases that constitute a street fight (i.e. 'violence completed' 'done by strangers') that involved multiple offenders was 42.2%.

In otherwords 42.2% of violent attacks on people done by strangers involved more than one person.... thats getting close to nearly 1/2 off all cases.

So having said that... and since it has been pointed out on the forum before that taking on multiple opponents is very very very risky, and you're probably better off running..... is the study of martial arts worthless as a means of self defense????

Lefty
5/14/2005 6:31am,
Yeah, thats what got me interested in weapon styles. Particularly FMA because weapons are the great evener and you could defend from a strategically advantageous position (eg. a doorway).

TheBadGuy
5/14/2005 6:33am,
Mike Vallery the untrained skateboarder fought plenty of multiple opponent fights anc came out unscratched. All you need is the crazeey. You dont need training just go apeshit like jet li in Unleashed.

Hannibal
5/14/2005 6:42am,
This has been discussed before.

The RIGHT type of martial arts training is useful. And by the right type I mean full contact styles that have harsh training methods and do lots of sparring. We all know this okay ? Right ?

But at the end of the day its the man, not the art that wins fights. Combat training is only as good as the person you give it too. SOme people can make it work better than others. And with the right type of training people of average ability can become better.

Put it this way - if I was in a street fight I'd feel more comfortable having been trained in martial arts than not having been trained.

Lefty
5/14/2005 6:50am,
Mike Vallery the untrained skateboarder fought plenty of multiple opponent fights anc came out unscratched. All you need is the crazeey. You dont need training just go apeshit like jet li in Unleashed.

Yeah but from the video it looked like he picked that fight and wanted to beat them down. He also seemed to be the heaviest build and they seemed like a bunch of lanky highschool drop outs who were scared off pretty easily.

I mean it wasn't like they were a bunch of criminals out to beat him up and were appropriately tough enough to implement violence as a strategy that they felt comfortable with.

TheBadGuy
5/14/2005 7:43am,
yea but I heard he does the same to bouncers. And Bas Rutten ebat a bunch fo boucners up once in Britain.

kevinbjjplayer
5/14/2005 7:50am,
What kind of weapon would you use in a street fight? Like a katana or nunchukas?

MEGA JESUS-SAMA
5/14/2005 8:06am,
A heavy stick, maybe a knife if you carry those, or anything else that might be lying about.

My sword is probably the last thing I'd venture out with.

Lefty
5/14/2005 8:09am,
Heh something like a car wheel lock, a pipe, a piece of wood with a rusty nail through it, a broken bottle, sporting equipment etc.

Judah Maccabee
5/14/2005 8:38am,
It's one thing to talk a tough game with weapons; it's another to actually have the stones to do it and live with the consequences. "Judged by 12 ratherr than carried by 6" and all that.

Some people on BS are familiar with a recent occurrence where someone used a makeshift weapon in a barfight and received a jail sentence for it. Now they have to live with the consequences of that while in jail and afterwards, since a similar occurrence will get them back in the slammer, for even longer.

That being said, some MA's explicitly drill for multiple opponent's, like Krav Maga, but that's about as unenviable as taking on even a slightly trained knife-fighter while barehanded. You're not gonna come away unscathed.

CanucKyokushin
5/14/2005 9:38am,
I probably looked at the chart wrong. But it did seem to show your more then likely to get into a one on one fight then multiple.

What are the situations that you might find yourself in a multiple attack of fight you'd have a lot to do with what the Hell you think your trying to do.

-Chances are your more then likely to get jumped in a bar my 2 or more guys for mouthing off to someone (This is from my personal experience). :new_all_c

-You are probably going to get your ass kicked for deciding to take a short-cut thru the park that is frequented by drunken teens that are looking for something to do. :tard:

-You are more then likely to get your ass kicked for trying to be something chivalrous by helping out a women who is being harassed by some punks on street. :angel2:

-You are more then likely to get your ass kicked at a sporting event by wearing the visiting teams Jersey and deciding to walk down a street full of home town fans. :qcheerlea

Whatever situation that might bring you stupid ass into fighting multiple opponents may have a lot to do with your decision that got you there in the first place.

Strong Machine
5/14/2005 11:03am,
Fighting 2 or 3 guys is risky.But if they're untrained average athletes and you are fit and train hard and correctly, you got a very good chance of winning.
Some think beating 5 guys is easy.
Others think beating 2 is almost impossible.They are both wrong.

kevinbjjplayer
5/14/2005 11:36am,
okay i see just **** in a dark alley or somethin. Hey what about one of those cool pimp canes with a sword in them.

bodar
5/14/2005 11:58am,
My problem with the poster's premise is that there's still about a 60% chance that you'll get into a one-on-one fight. How does that make MA's USELESS for self-dense? And it's already been said that good training is far better than none at all. Maybe you won't completely own the 3 guys that jump you, but your training might allow you the opportunity to minimize your injury and get away, whereas someone without such conditioning might be screwed. You will never be completely prepared for every situation, but it doesn't hurt to try.

patfromlogan
5/14/2005 12:07pm,
...is the study of martial arts worthless as a means of self defense????[for multiples]
Well, no. Like anything else, it's a matter of skill. My Kyokushin sensei was willing to take on three guys who were hassling a woman and they decided not to fight him. A wise choice since he was a karate champ at that time and he'd have destroyed them. I've never fought multiples myself. I'd dial 911! I did step up to help a guy in a three on one and tried hard to look dumb, fat, and non-agressive. Let them yell, played stupid (it WAS a reach) and waited, planning a osoto gari and smash fucker's head on concrete, side kick guy in middle etc... But they decided getting high on meth and yelling was as far as they wanted to take it.

http://judoinfo.com/images/nauta/sotogari.gif

kevinbjjplayer
5/14/2005 12:12pm,
hhhmmm I like your game plan PATFROMLOGAN