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J-kid
2/28/2003 1:55am,
I posted these messages on sherdog and thought i would share them with you guys as well.

Would you say Movies and TV are helping martial arts or spoiling it.

Today in school I went out of my way asking random high schooler’s and people outside of school what they thought about martial arts.

I asked a bunch of questions.
For example…
First I Explained Who Bob Sapp was then explained how tuff he is.
I then asked ‘What if Bob Sapp fought Bruce Lee who would win.

The answer I got was shocking and even more shocking is why they thought that.
The most common answer was Bruce lee would knock Bob Sapp out in a second,
Then I explained why this 99% impossible,(in this augment Bruce Lee was in his prime)

Here is what I got back, “I have seen the movies the cameras couldn’t keep up with his hands” or “in the documentary about Bruce Lee he knocked people back with 1 inch punch 8 feet.

It was nearly impossible to convince these people other wise.
Then I brought up Jet Li who even claims he’s not really a fight he is more an actor.
I said what do you think about Jet Li they said he was awesome etc.
Then I said have you ever seen the UFC or heard of it, most said yes
Then I stated in the upcoming movie Cradle to the Grave. Jet Li kicks Titos ass.
Do you think in real life Tito would lose to Jet Li?
I got a lot of yes’s.
I finally found a few people who knew some stuff on UFC and they totally agreed with me that the weakest fighter in the UFC and most trained fighters in MMA could destroy Jet Li. ( No disrespect intended for Jet Li or Bruce Lee)

I moved on to ask them what they thought about martial arts in general asking people questions like what martial art do you think is the strongest.

I got a lot of Kung fu and Karate as the answer.
Even though most forms of these martial arts were destroyed in the UFC.
(We don’t need to bring up the difference between street and ring; the UFC was the proving ground for martial arts PERIOD.)

I asked them where they got there information from they said “ Kung Fu movies etc.”
They also believed in things like being able to death touch using mystical chi. (which we all know is pretty fake just like No touch Knock outs)

This being said do you think its good that these martial arts videos like Cradle to the Grave are coming out seeing how people really don’t know Fiction from reality.

Not to mention the fact it shows UFC fighters being destroyed by Jet Li.
(You can’t really blame Tito and Chuck and the rest for doing the movie, even if it was taking the quick buck)

But none the less I believe this will set back the mixed martial arts community.

Because of the Fact that if you want to buy something there will always be someone there to sell it to you for a price.

Fake martial arts schools nick named MCDOJOS will profit big off movies like this and brain washing helpless people who just want to learn how to defend them self.

With so many Freaks , Frauds , and weirdo’s all lining there pockets showing useless fighting skills and signing a lot of people up on contracts and feeding them belts left and right for a price, shouldn’t there be a realer side a movie that shows the true strength of mixed martial arts.

But on a lighter note would we even be here doing mixed martial arts without some of those movies.

I feel as if we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

But if we all expose the truth in Martial arts maybe we can some day,
Clean up the martial arts would.

J-kid
2/28/2003 1:56am,
the last post was supost to go after this one.

I would like to note three things.
1 being that people today have trouble because of the fact that they believe that if they see it on TV it must be true.
(Their general thinking being, No one would risk lying to the public so it must be real.)
The problem is that when everyone wants to believe so bad, they get sucked in.
Most of the time people who have other reasons join their local gym (most likely TKD)
Not just to learn how to fight for something to do and to gain some respect/self esteem.

What they get is a mental disorder where they become like obedient dogs and when they discover the truth that they had been had they cant except it.

It’s like bringing down there beliefs,
At most Tradional Gyms they try and break you with submission behaviors habitts that most people pick up fast.

First they break you with bowing then make you study the history and over time you become modeled into a person who will take commands and dance on command.

If they told you the sky was Gold you would never question them and they would always shroud them selves with secrecy. You become a Kata machine.

Later on when you get beat down you start to surf the Internet seeing what you did wrong and come across chat boards and messages like this and find your very morals in question.

Many people find them selves’ hurt and mislead, then find themselves in MMA
I know there is a difference between the Cage/Ring and the street but the real question is what can a art do on the street if it cant hold it self in a controlled environment like the octagon then how will you be able to fight a knife wielding guy on the street any better then a MMA. The fact is they can’t most of the time and the UFC was the best way to prove it.

I’ve heard this many times in the defense of TMA (Tradional Martial Arts)
1.The ring is not the street. (Well where would you like to test your skills in the middle of the street or on a football field. It’s like Dr. Sues said where would you like your green eggs and ham. I am 99% sure that no matter where it is they will have a excuses.)
2. Their friends will attack you as well. (Great well I don’t know about you guys but it’s a challenge for any martial artist to fight multiple opponents, Now if your not able to fight one person how are you goanna take three pissed off people.
3.You can’t go to your back on the street because their friends will attack you.
(Well yeah that is for the most part true but what they fail to realize people don’t jump to there back, they get the take down and mount. There lower knowledge of other arts shocks me like there dumb comments.)
4. On the street you can eye hook and bite/pull hair. (So what, they fail to realize we can do that to and most of the time it will just make people mad doing that stuff. The fact is clear that anyone will do what it takes to win. Don’t think because ‘If you fight in the ring you get used to fighting with rules’ You stated it yourself the ring is not the street and you just like anyone else will fight dirty. But now you have an Experienced fighter fighting dirty you in deep ****.

Few closing comments, Ring fighters train full contact all the time where your every day martial artist wont go threw half of the intense training they do.

The Ring/UFC maybe not the street but it is pretty close and if you can’t it in there, then you won’t have more luck on the street.

The best defense on the street is a GUN.

J-kid
2/28/2003 1:56am,
forgot one more thing that they say usually.
“My art is 5,000 years old and is proven.”
(Great, the horse has been used for transportation for about 5000 years + as well.
Now with all things technology improves, If you don’t believe me you can race your horse VS my sports car. The British found this out the hard way when Americans where ducking behind

J-kid
2/28/2003 1:59am,
Opps
I forgot one more thing that they say usually.
“My art is 5,000 years old and is proven.”
(Great, the horse has been used for transportation for about 5000 years + as well.
Now with all things technology improves, If you don’t believe me you can race your horse VS my sports car. The British found this out the hard way when Americans where ducking behind trees in the Revolutionary war

J-kid
2/28/2003 2:00am,
White Belt

Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Washington State.
Posts: 8
Hey trunks I would love to hear your side, please enlighten us all.
I don’t want to have a flame war with you I just want to here why you think the way you do, nothing more, nothing less.

Also I do remember when Jim Brown said. "I didn’t see any disciplines at work, I just saw swinging!"

Back then the announcers where winging it half the time, If anyone remembers when Royce Gracie fought that wrestling champion.

The announcers where saying “looks like Royce is in trouble.” Then when the wrestler guy taped out due to triangle chock they gave a billion difference explanations (they had no clue to what had just happen)

I believe most of the announcers had different thoughts on martial arts back then and most didn’t have much in the way of grappling back then and that left them clueless.

J-kid
2/28/2003 2:00am,
Hey Nightwing
I do agree with some of your post,
Because I do know TMAist who are pretty good at what they do in there fighting arts.
I also believe that some arts are better then others.
For instance you would use a butter knife to cut down a tree and you wouldn’t use a chain saw to butter your bread (well most of us anyways).
Some things just work better and that’s how the world works.
Its just like saying a old computer VS a brand new with state of the art technology.
Which one is gonna be better, the one with the bugs worked out and upgraded or old busted weak stuff.
If you know anything about computers the newer computer would be a lot better then the old one. With time comes change and over time you improve. Which means take what works dump the rest…..
But we can’t forget the past ether and its important that we remember were we came from and the struggle it took to get this far. That’s why I fear movies like Cradle to the Grave will push back the MMA community. Its bad enough with have librils running around trying to ban combative sports, because mommy wouldn’t let them go horse around with there friends when they where young. But now we have to deal with UFC champions going to the quick buck and when people see these movies they end up thinking. Man that Kung fu destroyed there kickboxing, wrestling, BJJ, etc.

The proof is all around you for instance if you where to use word and write down some different martial art names and you capitalized Kickboxing and didn’t Kung fu it would say its wrong and want you to un-capitalize kickboxing and capitalize Kung fu.

You see its not just one big thing its just a bunch of different little things and then it becomes a big PROBLEM for all of us.


__________________

J-kid
2/28/2003 2:01am,
These are the posts i made on my thread.

As you can see some adress people directly.

heres the thread
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showt...20&pagenumber=1

Fatality Dragon
2/28/2003 3:45am,
Hollywood don't give a damn about person's self defense or ground fighting. All they want is moneys. So they aren't gonna to spend a millions of dollars on some movie that will attract bunches of homo men to watch bunches of fighter hugging eachother on ground to death and end up making only few thousand dollars. So the movies probably will still be all about TMA for very long time after all of us are dead (if not forever). Because the public want to see all cool flashy moves and fights, not some ground fighter who roll around on ground. So you either have to live with it or you can try to change it (I doubt anyone can change this, it is extremely difficult unless all students are require to take UFC style classes in school).

"I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."

Chiburi
2/28/2003 7:44am,
Movies are just that MOVIES - make believe. Your always going to get people that mix fiction with reality, until a real dose of reality comes and hits them right on the nose ( or takes them to the ground and ties them up, you choose ;) ).

Anyway I love movies, I want to be entertained, I watch a jet li movie I dont come out thinking thats the **** I'll be training in my next session.

The reality is non-MA's dont want to see *real* fighting in a movie, it would be far too boring, they wanna see all the fancy stuff, its exciting, its entertaining.

Wanna watch something a little more real we've got all the NHB stuff.

Anyway thats my newbie 2-cents - wtf do I know anyhoo I'm just a TMA of sorts ;p

silentdog
2/28/2003 8:26am,
"Ring fighters train full contact all the time"

yeah, but ninjas fight all the time and flip out and kill people!!! SWEEEET!!

anyway, stop whining. your reality is as distorted and one-sided as is the one of the people you're complaining about.

SLJ
2/28/2003 8:53am,
The public just want a show, they don't want reality, and they moan if they get it.

I think showing Jet Li beating Pro MMA fighters is pretty stupid, but people need to think for themselves.

----------------------------------------------------------
The story of a woman on the morning of a war,
Remind me if you will exactly what we're fighting for.

Deadpan Scientist
2/28/2003 12:26pm,
1 being that people today have trouble because of the fact that they believe that if they see it on TV it must be true.(Their general thinking being, No one would risk lying to the public so it must be real.)

You did see MMA triumph over TMA on television didn't you? Ok, just checking...

poet
2/28/2003 1:51pm,
ROTFL... "You did see MMA triumph over TMA on television didn't you? Ok, just checking..."

Judo-Kid - "I feel as if we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t."

I agree. It is the price of freedom vigilance


"I do not agree with what you have to say but, I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire

Omen Stone
2/28/2003 2:22pm,
This is a lost cause judo kid. Wrestling looks gay being on the ground is gay, people don't like it. Face up MMA has a limit market value the general population arn't going to watch this reality fighting. They wany kung fu flash, and will always want it. Get over it. I think a movie would such if it was just like ufc it be boring watching Jet Li kick 50 ninja's asses is alot more entertaining.
Also I am glad people find styles that work in real life. I just have question is every one on the street and train ufc fighter? I believe the answer is no, you averge crook fighting ablities range from simple weaponary to maybe some expertise. So ues a tkd dude might be able to beat up the crack who's trying to mug him. If you really want to be the best fighter in the world get a fucken gun or pocket knife. Because you most likly get stab if you tryed your bjj on the average thug.

"A California man has been taken to court for stalking Anna Nicole Smith. The man has been charged with invasion of privacy, illegal trespassing, and having really bad taste."-Conan

DanDavis
2/28/2003 3:26pm,
I think shows like Sponge Bob and the Power Rangers have caused dojos to place a lot more focus on kids, which makes it tough for adults to get much out of the training. I've noticed that the adult-child ratio has changed dramatically in the last 20 years. Part of it is because a lot more kids are training, but another part is due to the adults dropping out.

One question I'd have is how have martial arts affected movies? Up until recently, you'd see nothing but flashy strikes in martial arts movies. Now, due to the popularity of the UFC and other MMA events, you're starting to see more grappling and submissions in the martial arts flicks. Hell, I saw Jean-Claude Van Damme - Mr. Flash himself - slap an armbar on somebody in "Derailed." Terrible movie, by the way. I also remember seeing Seagal use the guard in "Under Siege 2." "Kickboxer 4," another lousy flick, actually had quite a few realistic fights - due in part to Rigan and Jean Jacques Machado's input.

"Strike first! Strike hard! No mercy, sir!"

Omen Stone
2/28/2003 4:51pm,
but not to the degree of the ufc. Also the ufc has rules, that means no weapons. If look at any recent kung fu movie, like Kiss of the dragon, Jet Li spent most of the time wishing he had a gun, remeber that Locker? Even Bruce Lee thought that guns would work better then fighting hand to hand.
In enter the dragon they even had a reason there were no guns, the guy who owned the island didn't feel comfortable around them, thats why all the guards had sticks and why bruce lee couldn't bring a gun.


"A California man has been taken to court for stalking Anna Nicole Smith. The man has been charged with invasion of privacy, illegal trespassing, and having really bad taste."-Conan