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MattTracy
2/26/2003 1:21am,
Bruce Lee is admired so much mainly because of the bad ass image created from his movies and such, but I don't deny he was one of the most intense Martial Artists at the time. He sought truth in martial arts, not flashing techniques. It would have been nice for him to meet the Gracies, they probably would have influenced eachother greatly, but unfortunately BJJ remained a secret for a long time.

The more I read about Bruce Lee the more I see the very philosophy of the MMA fighter...
Here are some of his comments from his book(s).
(Bruce Lee: Jeet Kune Do - Bruce Lee's commentaries on the martial way).

"My JKD is something else... more and more I pity the martial artists that are blinded by their partiality and ignorance."
This means accepting that JKD might not work as a practical martial art idea, but it works great a philosophy for developing yourself through other systems(BJJ, Muay Thai etc.)

"To be bound by traditional martial art style or styles is the way of the mindless, enslaved martial artist, but to be inspired by the tradional martial art and to achieve further heights is the way of genius."

"Truth cannot be structed or confined."
Accept this and move on, cross train, do everything that is good for the realization of this.
"Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless."


"Remember that a martial art man is not merely a physical exponent of some prowess he may have been gifted with in the first place." Rickson seems pretty damn gifted and Bruce Lee did wonders with what he was given(his body). He was very damn small though and would be forced to use technqiue/speed to combat raw strength.

All this being said, Bruce Lee's legend survives at as a result of his philosophy, not his techniques(Which in my opinion are a joke compared to techniques today). The fools who copy what he did and proclaim it 'the truth' are the very people BRUCE LEE sought to overthrow.

Rickson would have killed Bruce Lee. Anyone who says differently should go back to Tae-Kwon-Do class and drown in their own impracticality. The Gracies did what Bruce Lee dreamed of, they developed a system of advancing their techniques based on
absorbing what is useful and discarding what is useless, and granted they did it for a longer period then when Bruce was around. I can only imagine what Helio or Rolls Gracie would have done to Bruce Lee...

Give both their props, but do not say Bruce Lee would win simply because he tried so damn hard, that would be doing him a great injustice.

Boyd
2/26/2003 1:45am,
The Gracies did what Bruce Lee dreamed of, they developed a system of advancing their techniques based on
absorbing what is useful and discarding what is useless, and granted they did it for a longer period then when Bruce was around.

I thought they just took preexisting Judo/Jiu-Jitsu techniques and...uh...renamed them.

http://www.liquidspin.com/webcams/indorock/Hate.jpg

Greese
2/26/2003 1:53am,
I think if given enough time Lee would have become better than the Gracie's. His stand up was good and he was training with Lebell, who, imho, would have killed any of the Gracies in his day.

SLJ
2/26/2003 3:55am,
>Rickson would have killed Bruce Lee. Anyone who says differently should go back to Tae-Kwon-Do class and drown in their own impracticality.


LMAO, welcome Matt.



>Lebell, who, imho, would have killed any of the Gracies in his day.


He would beat Royce and maybe some of the others I'll give you that, but Rickson would of taken him apart.

I agee with everything in your post, and I see it's your first one.

----------------------------------------------------------
The story of a woman on the morning of a war,
Remind me if you will exactly what we're fighting for.

lechuza
2/26/2003 10:57am,
i never got into Bruce Lee as a kid, nor did i ever buy into his film-icon image, i was just aware of it. but now i'm really into the idea of Bruce Lee as a philosophy student who ultimately dropped out before earning an academic degree. i found this interesting article about him : http://www.hermenaut.com/a187.shtml

(please pardon if this is old news)

*...i dunno...*

MattTracy
2/26/2003 11:39am,
"but unfortunately BJJ remained a secret for a long time."

It stayed a Brazilian thing for a long time. America is ignorant of other cultures until you come to America and beat them up.


Gracies did a hell of a lot more than rename techniques.
Judo is good but they practice worthless techniques over and over again. Maybe its just me because i've been poisoned with Sport Jitsu.

patfromlogan
2/26/2003 12:35pm,
A recent BB mag had Helio on the cover and it traces the history of the style and it's spread world wide.

Nice link lechuza, one point I take issue with is that Lee belittled trad ma's. He used to give demo's for Prof. Wally Jay's Judo/Jui Jitsu club's fund raising luaus in Alameda, CA for their team's travelling expenses. He got along fine with respected ma's like Wally Jay. Probably stole some techniques, and at that time would spar any bb who was willing. Jay, ofcourse is an inovative ma, developing techniques and his own brand of JJ (small hand jj) so I think Lee was against the closed minded ma's, not trad artists in general.

>>>Always walk on a bright, wide road. If you choose to live with your right posture, you don't have to go on a dark road or a malodorous place. Oyama

Sweep The Leg, Johnny
2/26/2003 12:49pm,
Many here say Lee would have gotten killed in MMA competition, but what they don't realize is that he was a PIONEER of MMA. He cleared the way. Of course today's athletes have an advantage; its called evolution. There's been another 30 years of experimentation on top of Lee's philosophies.

It's like criticizing Benjamin Franklin for not inventing the laptop computer!

Deadpan Scientist
2/26/2003 1:11pm,
People were mixing styles long before bruce lee was a twinkle in his father's eye.

Sweep The Leg, Johnny
2/26/2003 1:13pm,
Examples? And who were they fighting?

SifuAbel
2/26/2003 2:05pm,
Keep in mind Bruce would be fighting in his weight class, Super fly weight. He knew his way around, he studied groundwork, and he had all the physical fitness of any of todays fighters. I think he would do well.

As far as all this "evolved" technique is concerned. I don't buy it. If someone could point out how any punch, kick, throw, lock or anything is somehow different today than 2000 years ago, I'd like to hear it. And remember, boxing has been around for millienia.

Technique isn't the main issue in UFC, its who is bigger and meaner.

Omen Stone
2/26/2003 2:07pm,
brandeissansoo they still did worthless moves and bound them selves either by hybrid traditions or new traditions all togather. Bruce Lee was the first to one say "Well thats stupid, How can that be used in a fight?" Till him alot people practice some pretty strange things for no reason.

"A California man has been taken to court for stalking Anna Nicole Smith. The man has been charged with invasion of privacy, illegal trespassing, and having really bad taste."-Conan

Sweep The Leg, Johnny
2/26/2003 2:30pm,
What I mean by that is the training has evolved. We're much more scientific about safe training methods and nutrition. And different fighting approaches. In the 60's and 70's basically the only ground game was judo & wrestling, etc... which Bruce Lee studied extensively. Brazilian JJ was just not heard of yet, at least in the states. But you can bet that he would have jumped at the chance to learn it, and use it.

FingerorMoon?
2/26/2003 5:50pm,
I was recently reading about Helio Gracie. He went to Japan and fought some matches in front of HUGE audiences.

BJJ was not a secret, just wasn't known in America.

--------
What would happen if a one hand clapper attempted to stop a tree falling in the woods when no one else was around?
--------

The Kid
2/26/2003 6:39pm,
I'm taking sweeping johnnys side on this one, to think we haven't "evolved" in respects to training, nutrition, and so forth is just absurd. The fact that our technology is exposing more fights/fighters to each other and the warrior community is also "speeding the evolution" of MMA.
The final stage will be more financial backing/ bigger purses etc... it's only a matter of time ;)

The Kid
2/26/2003 6:47pm,
Forgive the quad-post please.

"And remember, boxing has been around for millienia."

-Remember when boxers use to fight with fists held out in front of their stomach, palms facing up...... what ever happened to that