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ojgsxr6
3/03/2005 3:40pm,
What does it take to be a Tiger Schullman Instructor? What qualifications do they have to teach sub grappling. How long do they train before they can teach sub grappling? I now they represent very well in ring fighting but is it becasue they can flood a tournament. How do the students specifiaclly place?
I'm asking all this because I'm still looking for a new school, and while TSK's record impresses me I'm still wary of the qualifications of the instructors, because I dont think that all them have been training for 5 years plus in Sub Grappling or whatever style of standup they teach.

TylerDurden
3/03/2005 3:42pm,
Don't look at overall points, look at the individual finishers. TSK people are not generally taking high places in advanced divisions. The team that really dominates those meets is Renzo.

PeedeeShaolin
3/03/2005 4:07pm,
Don't look at overall points, look at the individual finishers. TSK people are not generally taking high places in advanced divisions. The team that really dominates those meets is Renzo.

Don't look at submission grappling at ALL because its not an indication someone can fight. Look at MMA if you want to see that.

Their qualifications used to be great but I have to say its gone downhill, although I'm not close enough with those guys anymore to give specifics.

If you want to join a FIGHT TEAM I would still reccomend them with two thumbs up, but they have a very tough fight team and unless your pretty good to start you're not going to be able to train with them and compete.

TylerDurden
3/03/2005 4:20pm,
I addressed the sub grappling aspect because he mentioned it specifically.

I am curious Peedee where did TSK's subgrappling coaches get their training to begin with? Sounds like you used to know them so you would be the one to ask.

punchingdummy
3/03/2005 5:24pm,
The instructors still go through an apprentice program where they can become Joshu, then Deshi, after earning their 1st degree black belts. What has changed recently is that they must noe become certified in the areas (core, kickboxing and grappling) they teach beofre they can actually teach. Certification is still under the direct supervision ot the Shihans. AFIK.

ojgsxr6
3/03/2005 5:28pm,
How long does it take to be certified in Grappling, KickBoxing, or Core. Can I be certified if I wasn't a student at TSK, like if I held a rank in another style. What truly bothers me about TSK is the franchise aspect of it. If they are like H&R block, where it's an 11 week course, and you can prepare people taxes or teach in this case. I hope it's longer than 11 weeks. And what are the people who do the certifiying ranked in.

PeedeeShaolin
3/03/2005 6:35pm,
The only reason the franchise thing should bother you is if you wanted to OWN one of their schools. Gracie Jiu Jitsu is a franchise as well.

When I was there the instructors were very qualified but, if I have to be honest, the level has slipped because of rapid expansion. Pretty much ALL of the instructors are good fighters(from what I've seen), but you're not paying them to fight you're paying them to teach YOU how to fight.

You used to have to attain black belt in a VERY hard test. After that you had to assist in at least 100 classes before you could even become an ASSISTANT instructor. Another 100 after THAt and you could become an APPRENTICE instructor and then you had to train with the team for an unkown time period before you could be a full instructor. Even after THAT you had to train at the TSK headquarters at least 1x a week for a minimum of 10 YEARS to keep your certification.

Now I hear they have 16 year olds that are instructors. Thats not my thing and I really cant support it. In my opinion theres a difference between a fighter and a teacher.

PeedeeShaolin
3/03/2005 6:38pm,
I addressed the sub grappling aspect because he mentioned it specifically.

I am curious Peedee where did TSK's subgrappling coaches get their training to begin with? Sounds like you used to know them so you would be the one to ask.

When UFC 1 first came out Schulmann immediately started training grappling. He's a really smart guy and knows how to train so while alot of other people were busy trying to develop the anti-grappling he embraced it right away and he had the money to learn properly.

Thats why TSK does so well in sub grappling even though they havent been training with it form long at all.

Schulmann learned from John Lewis and then we had Rick Dellagotta teach the cometition team wrestling. He was a greco roman medalist and did a great job.

I'm sure that NOW they learn like everyone else does. They seem to be doing great as far as the fight team goes but I cant say what goes on in the normal classes anymore because I really dont know.

punchingdummy
3/03/2005 7:33pm,
How long does it take to be certified in Grappling, KickBoxing, or Core. Can I be certified if I wasn't a student at TSK, like if I held a rank in another style. What truly bothers me about TSK is the franchise aspect of it. If they are like H&R block, where it's an 11 week course, and you can prepare people taxes or teach in this case. I hope it's longer than 11 weeks. And what are the people who do the certifiying ranked in.

Measured in years, not weeks.

PD...I've yet to see a 16 yr old instructore (other than a Sempai who is assisting Senei with a class)

ojgsxr6
3/03/2005 9:26pm,
Measured in years, not weeks.
I figured that. Which one do you go to? I'm thinking about trying the one in Massapequa.

punchingdummy
3/03/2005 9:59pm,
I figured that. Which one do you go to? I'm thinking about trying the one in Massapequa.

Actually, Massapequa.

punchingdummy
3/03/2005 10:03pm,
Now I hear they have 16 year olds that are instructors. Thats not my thing and I really cant support it. In my opinion theres a difference between a fighter and a teacher.

...as it should turn out, we had a 17 year old (2nd Degree) Deshi leading warmups this evening. He didn't teach class, but he is a Deshi ??? Anyway, his skills - especially feet - are excellent and I had actually heard about him before ever meeting him. Gravina would use him for demos, and he's actually quite mature for his age. I assume since he is a Deshi he could lead classes, but haven't seen it yet.

punchingdummy
3/03/2005 10:07pm,
I figured that. Which one do you go to? I'm thinking about trying the one in Massapequa.

PM inbound.

Gypsy Jazz
3/04/2005 12:16am,
Check out the TSK website specifically http://www.tsk.com/studentarea/faq/ to read up on what they want out of their instructors. I only have experience with my own local TSK, but can say with confidence that the instructors aren't talking out their asses. For the "core" or more technique and cardio based class I have had a teacher who hasn't had a fight record, but at very least knew their stuff. For grappling and kickboxing (exactly what they sound like) I've only had teachers who have competed MT, MMA and grappling and if desired I can provide proof of such.

My guess is that not every instructor at every school has a comprehensive fight record, but I know that it is required at least two or three (don't remember for sure) times a week to train under the shihan. Each of these training sessions was described as starting with pad work (core) then going to sparring (kickboxing) and then rolling (sub grappling). Also to pass the black belt test you are required to achieve a certain level of grappling proficiency (specifics can be found on the TSK site).

Really what it comes down to is: go check it out and see if you like it or not. Chances are that you'll be pleasently suprised (as I was) when I visited.

Lampa
3/04/2005 1:10am,
Wow. I'm going to visit my family on Long Island next week. We almost have enough for a throw down.

punchingdummy
3/04/2005 7:38am,
who have competed MT, MMA and grappling.

I bit of an understatement seeing as though your guy in undefeated in MMA.

(You also forget to mention Golden Gloves)