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Fantasy Warrior
2/21/2005 8:41am,
I have received this legal threat from the Open Circle Institute (A pressure point SD lot). I am very dubious about the use of PPS they are advocating although too early to call them Bullshido. But can they use copyright arguments to smother discussion?

Both they and I are in UK. Hereís what they say:


I would like to warn you that you are seriously starting to test my patience. You habitually copy and paste content without permission and now I see you are also pasting pictures from MY website without prior written consent. Which part of COPYRIGHT are you finding hard to understand? I would seriously warn you to consider your actions carefully before copying and pasting any more of my pictures or words.
------<snip>-------
Anyway, please cease from using any images or text that is copyright either of me, or the Open Circle Institute, or further steps will be taken.

Regards
Angela Giesens
OCI PR Officer

Does cut/pasting forum comments onto another board (such as Iíve done here) constitute a copyright infringement?

Does displaying a linked picture at its original server constitute a copyright breach?

MrMcFu
2/21/2005 8:47am,
I can't see how it would.

MrMcFu
2/21/2005 8:52am,
Here is her homepage -

http://www.giesens.co.uk

MrMcFu
2/21/2005 8:54am,
Don't miss this seminar from her school . . .

Saturday 12th March:
Kata Bunkai Seminar with OCI co-founder, Russell Stutely. Flying in from Cyprus, Russell will be teaching pressure points and correct usage of the body in the code of kata. Cost: £25

http://www.karateacademy.co.uk/

PO9
2/21/2005 8:59am,
Probably just pissed cuz her precious martial art is outed as bullshido.

SamHarber
2/21/2005 9:05am,
UK Copyright Law To The Rescue!

Taken from http://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law

Acts that do not infringe copyright

Fair dealing is a term used to describe acts which are permitted to a certain degree (normally copies of parts of a work) without infringing copyright, these acts are:

* Private and research study purposes.
* Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes.
* Criticism and news reporting.
* Incidental inclusion.
* Copies and lending by librarians.
* Acts for the purposes of royal commissions, statutory enquiries, judicial proceedings and parliamentary purposes.
* Recording of broadcasts for the purposes of listening to or viewing at a more convenient time, this is known as time shifting.
* Producing a back up copy for personal use of a computer program.
* Playing sound recording for a non profit making organisation, club or society.

(Profit making organisations and individuals should obtain a license from the Performing Rights Society.)
---------------------
I think the criticism and news reporting section covers it quite well. With regards to pictures, make sure you have some sort of criticism of them, and they can't touch you.

AFS
2/21/2005 9:06am,
Just a controversial thought -
maybe it would be good manner to inform somebody that you use their material on a martial arts forum and ask for permission. Maybe even invite them to take part in the discussion.
I know that's a bit anal and makes the task of filtering bullshido just a bit more difficult.
But everybdoy deserves a fair go even if they use pressure points.

MrMcFu
2/21/2005 9:10am,
I think the criticism and news reporting section covers it quite well. With regards to pictures, make sure you have some sort of criticism of them, and they can't touch you.

I don't like that picture. The overuse of negative space draws my ire.

Angela Giesens
2/21/2005 9:12am,
Good Afternoon

I am Angela Giesens, the person who sent the email to "kickcatcher". Unfortunately he is not being entirely honest in his appraisal of the situation. The email was not sent by the OCI in order to smother any conversation about the Institute. I am sure that the founders do not mind open and honest conversation about what we do - we hold open courses and nothing is kept secret. The email was sent by me, not the organisation; I just happen to be the OCI PR Officer, and the website is my work, and therefore I claim copyright. I am an individual and thefore my views do not necessarily represent the views of the OCI - however I do hold copyright on their site.

The email was sent because Kickcatcher was linking directly into our servers to show images we have uploaded. This is a breach of copyright and will use our bandwidth which the OCI has legitimately paid for. If Kickcatcher wanted to show a picture to prove a point the best way to do this is to link to the page and discuss which picture he was referring to, this prevent copyright infringement and stops pictures being shown out of context. Another email has been sent to the hosts of the board informing them of the violation of copyright - I await a response by them. I have CC'd that email to one of the Founders of the OCI but he was in no way instigated in the sending of the email, I just decided it would be better to keep him in the loop.

I work long and hard on all of my websites and unfortunately cannot tolerate copyright abuse. If kickcatcher wants to use any of my images he may contact me directly and I will negotiate a fee - that's the way any web-designer works. If he insists on linking to my gifs I will rename the ones on my website and replace the ones that he is linking to with a warning that the image is stolen from one of my sites.

Please feel free to PM or email me if you have any queries. you can email me on [email protected]

Warm regards
Angela Giesens

patfromlogan
2/21/2005 9:14am,
I have received this legal threat from the Open Circle Institute (A pressure point SD lot). I am very dubious about the use of PPS they are advocating although too early to call them Bullshido. But can they use copyright arguments to smother discussion?

Both they and I are in UK. Hereís what they say:



Does cut/pasting forum comments onto another board (such as Iíve done here) constitute a copyright infringement?

Does displaying a linked picture at its original server constitute a copyright breach?

Hey, if you want to expose them as Bullshido why don't you go challenge member "Sensei Paul Butlin 2nd dan (now a professional boxer)?" Probably because he'd beat your pants off, IMHO. I agree that the fat guy in red looks a little dubious, but there also seem to be martial artists involved in Open Circle (or whatever they call themselves).

What is your interest in this site? If it's just to make fun of a girl who looks like she is not exactly deadly, then I question your motive.

Have you made a thread or something about this Open Circle? Have you been posting on Bullshido about them? What is the issue and how did it come about?

AFS
2/21/2005 9:14am,
good on ya for posting here Angela

Angela Giesens
2/21/2005 9:17am,
good on ya for posting here Angela
Thanks :)

I have nothing to hide. Hence why I have the guts to use my real name unlike "Kickcatcher" A.k.a armchair strategist

WingChun Lawyer
2/21/2005 9:18am,
I see a mega thread in the making. I would like to help, but I am a brazilian lawyer, and my opinions do not hold water on this issue. Samuel Browning and Mister Mantis may have something to say about this, however (I refer to our US lawyers).

MrMcFu
2/21/2005 9:18am,
good on ya for posting here Angela

Yes good for you! Please join in. I do question the legitimacy of external linking claim.

It is a matter of politeness, not legality.

SamHarber
2/21/2005 9:20am,
I see a mega thread in the making. I would like to help, but I am a brazilian lawyer, and my opinions do not hold water on this issue. Samuel Browning and Mister Mantis may have something to say about this, however (I refer to our US lawyers).
Unfortunately, UK law is very different in some aspects, and to the best of my knowledge, there aren't any UK lawers on here. I can ask my ex girlfriend for some advice though.

Angela Giesens
2/21/2005 9:20am,
EDITED