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Don Gwinn
1/14/2005 12:15am,
Search on this question turned up nothing.

Been dieting and have lost about 40 lbs so far, but that leaves me at about 360 give or take. I have a very large frame and carry that much weight well enough to move fairly normally. I have begun adding some training now, some weight lifting and walking. I have a speed bag I need to hang up in the garage for more cardio.
I've had bad knees since high school football, but no surgery. I ran the 2-mile, albeit slowly, in high school at a weight of ~260. I could do it, but it took me 20 minutes.


Now, I'd like to start running. I'm never going to be a distance runner, and I don't really like to run, but I do want to be ABLE to run better than the average person and, aside from weight loss, I've GOT to get my heart and lungs in shape. And honestly, I could stand to toughen up.


I went for a walk in the woods over my lunch hour today since it was snowing. The ground was very soft, and I jogged up a couple of hills with very low intensity. I was surprised that it wasn't bad.

So, for those of you who've lost a lot of weight, or those of you who are heavy guys who run, how light would you want to be before you'd start running with a goal of doing, say, two miles three times a week? Or to put it another way, how heavy would you have to be before you figure the joint problems, hernia, etc. are too much to run?

Right now, I'm thinking I just get some inexpensive running shoes and alternate running and walking, running until I have to walk, then running when I can do it again. Maybe that lets me spread out the impact and the hope would be that I would be losing weight as my fitness improves.

Is that a mistake?

PizDoff
1/14/2005 12:25am,
Can you bike, swim, elliptical machine, rollerblade, treadmill instead?

Judah Maccabee
1/14/2005 12:27am,
You should probably ask a doctor or PT, Don.

I'd say stick with the walking. Walking a mile burns the same calories as running it, but obviously has different benefits for the body. Maybe if you had access to a stationary bike, you could get cardio benefits without stressing your joints? You could sit in front of your favorite movie and pedal away!

chaosexmachina
1/14/2005 12:27am,
If running uphill at a light jogging pace wasn't to bad, you should do fine with just jogging at a regular pace (not uphill) for a while. I'm definately not a fitness expert, however.

I always do that excersize (RUN until I can't and then maintain a light jog). Sound good. Wait for the experts to post, cuz I'm dumb. Heheh.

punchingdummy
1/14/2005 12:30am,
Congrats on the weight loss. My guess is that if you had bad knees as a kid, they are probabaly not going too be happy with you for very long if you start running. Some good walking, especially in hills, might be a better option (as are the others Pizd mentioned). It will get the heart pumping, and you can keep the heart rate elevated for longer periods than you can with running.

willy
1/14/2005 12:31am,
is your goal to get better at running or to add more cardio?


if it's just cardio i would suggest you do some other form until you lost some more weight. swiming, cycling, etc. if you hurt your knees you'll just end up behind in your goals.


but if you want to run and do it with proper form, good shoes and on forgiving surfaces i'd also say that you injury risk would be rather low but why risk it unless you have to.

Can Chaser
1/14/2005 12:37am,
You should probably ask a doctor or PT, Don.

I'd say stick with the walking. Walking a mile burns the same calories as running it, but obviously has different benefits for the body.
Your walk and run must be different from my walk and run.

As someone addicted to running, but with a fucked up knee and ankles, try for something else. Blading is good, as is mountain biking.

However, I enjoy my running. Do NOT get inexpensive walmart-wannabe running shoes. Get some that fit you right, and will hold up well and support your feet, and such. If nothing else, run a bit less often. I bit the big one and decided to switch from running every morning to one run a week. Also, running on a treadmill keeps the concussion to a fair minimum, but I personally hate the things.

chaosexmachina
1/14/2005 12:38am,
Also I'd say a heavybag would be a better cardio workout than a speedbag.

Judah Maccabee
1/14/2005 12:38am,
Your walk and run must be different from my walk and run.

I don't get it. What are you talking about?

lwflee
1/14/2005 12:46am,
You should probably ask a doctor or PT, Don.

I'd say stick with the walking. Walking a mile burns the same calories as running it, but obviously has different benefits for the body. Maybe if you had access to a stationary bike, you could get cardio benefits without stressing your joints? You could sit in front of your favorite movie and pedal away!

You know i read that in readers' Digest once. Rationale is (i think) coz Work Done = F x D. Anyone can give an authoratative opinion on that? It doesn't sound right because i KNOW i am much more tired from running 2 miles than walking it.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure my formula is wrong; waiting for the physics nazi to correct me.

Judah Maccabee
1/14/2005 12:52am,
Yeah, well I'm tired from sprinting 400 meters vs. walking it. It engages different parts of your body, such as anaerobic pathways.

http://pages.ivillage.com/sgsamson/weightloss.html


Weight Loss and Running


With exercise, it is a matter of burning off calories to lose weight. Whether walking or running, fast or slow, the average person will lose approximately 100 calories for every mile walked or run. Some sources state 93 calories for a 100 pound person. The speed that you walk or run does not make any difference. As each pound is equal to 3600 calories, you need to cover 35-36 miles to lose one pound. So even if you walk a marathon, you will not lose a total of one pound.

When you begin a weight loss program through exercise, weight drops off quickly due to water loss. Marathon runners will lose 7-10 pounds due to water loss, but only up to one pound due to the activity. This explains why it is important to hydrate as you run.

Calories burned while running is directly related to the distance covered, the faster you walk or run translates into a greater distance. Some individuals think that if they run 5 miles as opposed to walking the 5 miles, they burn off more calories. This is not necessarily the case. Long runs of 22 km or more, may increase the metabolism, but only for a short time

Timewise, you burn more calories than walking. But distance-wise? Pretty much the same.

TaeBo_Master
1/14/2005 4:51am,
I'm wary of accepting the walking and running burning the same calories per distance because a running stride produces more force than a walking stride, and producing force requires energy. Energy = calories. HOWEVER, I don't have any research available to me (BTW, citing an article does NOT constitute citing research), I'm not going to make a definitive judgement.

However, one thing IS certain. Running is much more of a workout for your heart and lungs. And since Don Gwinn stated that one of his goals is to improve cardiorespiratory fitness, then running is a better option.

For Don - I'm not a doctor, and I don't know the exact issue with your knees, so my advice has to be relatively general. I would say do what you can, as much as you can. But listen to your body. If you feel pain, especially in the knees, ease it up. Exercise should be difficult, but not painful. Your idea of doing intervals with jogging and walking is a good one. If nothing else, it will allow you to keep going for longer, thus increasing your calorie expenditure.

PO9
1/14/2005 7:32am,
As someone else said, if you insist on running, do not...I repeat DO NOT run on hard surfaces like asphalt or concrete. Stick to those soft woodland trails.

I'm in great running shape and have no serious injuries, yet at the moment I'm sidelined for about 2-3 weeks with ITBS in the knee because my unit in the Army has us running 10-15 miles a week up down the street instead of the miles of soft sand trails we have less than a 1/4 mile from the unit. Whenever we do run back there, most complain because of the hills (they can be quite the pussies at time), but to me that's the best workout we get from running.

So my advice, especially since you have previous knee problems, is to run on something soft. As well as following the good advice from others.

Boogyman
1/14/2005 9:58am,
Wow, some really great advice here. I used to weigh about 320, and have come down to a respectable 280 (was 260 but went back to HEAVY lifting and my body equalized). Anyhoo these guys are right:
1) DO NOT RUN ON HARD SURFACES!!!1 (they are right stick to the soft ones)
dirt- I noticed a little less pain, but was similar to a hard packed surface.
Sand- good one, but I noticed that I had to stretch more (both front and back of shins, and quads/hams).
Grass- I still use this one when I can, but watch out as the grass can "hide" holes, sprinkler heads, small covers (of some sort), and land mines (dog poop).

Try the Interval training on one of the machines these guys are talking about, I was able to raise my heart rate (to a significant degree) and then bring it down during "rest mode" without much jarring in my joints(I don't know about you, but when I am slowing down from running pace it jars the crap out of everything). It takes a little while longer to achieve your goal, but for your health it's definitely worth it. I also found out that (again for ME) that if I warm up my quads and the front muscles of my knees before I run, I don't hurt as bad. This is probably the best place to start as it will be the easiest on your body while still taxing your heart/lungs, and most importantly developing the strength and endurance to be able to run successfully.

Personally when I first began I was told just to run and eventually my body would work it out. I ended up jacking my knees up so bad I would have to ice them constantly until they would begin to feel better (usually a couple of days), then I (being the dumbass that I am) would go running again. All because I was listening to all these "little guys" telling me that running was the best excersise for us. Then I got tired of hurting all the time, and began researching different methods of developing strength, maximizing cardivascular output, and diet. It is still an ongoing process, but I am in considerably the best shape of my life.

If you have any specific questions I can offer some advice on specifically what I went through (I am not a certified fitness guru like TBM) but it may give you a start. And TBM can always critique what I list and maybe gear it more toward what you are trying to do (only if TBM wants to, of course).

VikingPower
1/14/2005 11:18am,
So, for those of you who've lost a lot of weight, or those of you who are heavy guys who run, how light would you want to be before you'd start running with a goal of doing, say, two miles three times a week? Or to put it another way, how heavy would you have to be before you figure the joint problems, hernia, etc. are too much to run?

Right now, I'm thinking I just get some inexpensive running shoes and alternate running and walking, running until I have to walk, then running when I can do it again. Maybe that lets me spread out the impact and the hope would be that I would be losing weight as my fitness improves.

Is that a mistake?

That's exactly what you have to do, walk and jog until you can jog the whole distance then increase the distance little bit by little bit. My gunny was a big guy (320lbs, albeit most of it was muscle him being Samoan) but he could run pretty damn well for a big guy. Jim Jeffries was a huge heavyweight (something like 260) but he would run 15-20 miles a day when in training. You just need to do what you're thinking about doing and you'll be fine.

Congratulations on the weight loss too, sounds like you're making some excellent progress.

JohnnyCache
1/14/2005 1:06pm,
Well, I weigh a good 360...probably more, I don't go out of my way to talk to mr. scale, and I can run without hurting my joints or legs . . . my lungs tend to give out tho.

But I'm a *big* guy, I'd be a fireplug if I was shorter...

Right now I'm kind of in the same place as you, trying to re-hab my cardio ability, which is NO DOUBT the biggest casualty of a year-long layoff...

Here's what I do (on a treadmill, groan if you want, but it is 1 deg. out here right now).

1st, I stretch. I don't want to compound my layoff with a joint injury.
2nd, I walk. I can't bear the idea of JC, big scary fighter guy, being the guy that hurts himself at the gym. I walk for a good five minutes, steadily turning the treadmill up until I find it more confortable to break into a run. I try to maintain that for 10-20 minutes, then I scale back down the same way I came up, and then work off treadmill legs with another stretch. I've only been back in training actively about a week, so I don't give to much attention to miles covered/cals burned yet... so far that's been pretty forgiving on my legs...and I believe me, I DON'T want to sideline myself now that I'm over the inertia, I'd rather take a little longer getting in shape then waste another year on beer and x-box...

I'd suggest doing the running you can without leg and joint pain, and then if you need more cardio, get it from something more forgiving, like a bike.