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Equipoise
12/17/2004 7:52pm,
After finishing my course in Philosophy of Religion, I figured why not open a debate on here about it.
Three main areas

1. Free-will, does it exist and what are it's implications?

2. Is evil/suffering absolutely necessary and what is the justification in the suffering?

3. Is there such a thing as immortality?


I tried to make it as broad as possible without being too pedantic in my own favor of questioning. Have at it kids. :eusa_ange

Jekyll
12/17/2004 7:59pm,
1)No.
2)No.
3)No.
For more information on god philophy see the god FAQ
http://www.400monkeys.com/God/

Equipoise
12/17/2004 8:08pm,
Hahaha.

Jekyll
12/17/2004 8:30pm,
Well I was serious.
1) The mechanism of the brain whilest not fully understood are entirely determanistic at a non-quantum level. Whilest there is room for random occurences at the quantum level, random =/=free will.
2)Its not necissary for people to exist, no people no evil no problem.
3) Assuming this universe is all there is thermodynamics=>no you'll run out of food sources eventually.

Thaiboxerken
12/17/2004 9:32pm,
What do those three questions have to do with the claims that there is a god or gods?

However, I'll answer with my opinions anyway.

1. Free will is an illusion, but a great model to base society on.

2. Evil doesn't really exist, it's just our one of many human abstract concepts of the world.

3. No living thing is immortal.

Te No Kage!
12/18/2004 9:28pm,
amoeba can be immortal, if left in certain conditions

I don't think they have cell death mechanisms encoded into their genome

Te No Kage!
12/18/2004 9:35pm,
to answer the questions:

1) freewill --> ?, guess it depends on your definitions, personally I'm a slave to my hormones so I say no

2) evil/suffering is based on a particular paradigm, one man's suffering is another man's pleasure, so no, emotions are not mandatory

3) mortality/immortality --> I believe in the expansion and contraction of the universe so I say no to immortality as I don't believe anything stays as itself (ie living things) when the universe is in the ultra-dense matter phase

Jenfucius
12/18/2004 10:08pm,
1. Free-will, does it exist and what are it's implications?

in a manner of speaking, yes. the implications are that your choices have consquences and repercussions.

2. Is evil/suffering absolutely necessary and what is the justification in the suffering?

no. i don't understand the latter part of the question. if you are asking what is the purpose of suffering, there is no purpose to it. you can make the decision to interpret it as having some purpose if you wish, but that is entirely controlled by you.

3. Is there such a thing as immortality?

is there such a thing as an unchanging self? if not, what is it that supposedly becomes immortal?

Mr. Mantis
12/19/2004 11:36pm,
"1. Free-will, does it exist and what are it's implications?"

Every person has volition. It's implications are that individuals are responsible for their decisions.

"2. Is evil/suffering absolutely necessary and what is the justification in the suffering?"

Is evil "necessary"? a priori, No; a posteriori, obviously. But when you say "evil" people think different concepts.

Is suffering "necessary"? No, not for everyone. and if there is suffering, what is the justification? An opportunity for growth.

"3. Is there such a thing as immortality?"

I believe there is, but that is not based on scientific or other philosophical reasoning, but on promises.

Equipoise
12/19/2004 11:53pm,
All good points from everyone. I should have related the questions more towards talking about how they relate to a Diety themselves.

1. If we have freewill, it's impossible for God to know what the future is going to be.

2. Evil can be defined by any form of suffering. Agita, women nagging, shin splints, sinkholes, whatever. Suffering is necessary for the building of moral character, in any capacity, strength, honor, etc. Any moral.

3. Does our soul have an existance on it's own? If we were to wake up tommorow in a different body, 100 years into the future, would we still retain our memories, experiences etc? That would imply that our essence, soul, whatever isn't dependant upon our physical bodies and this could suggest an immortality of sorts.

Equipoise
12/19/2004 11:58pm,
I believe in the expansion and contraction of the universe so I say no to immortality as I don't believe anything stays as itself (ie living things) when the universe is in the ultra-dense matter phase

Well the universe is forever expanding, Hubble red shifts show that, but it's not contracting. So the Ultra Dense matter phase was a one time shot.

Xango
12/20/2004 12:15am,
Jekyll, what precisely do you mean by 'deterministic'. It seems to imply some mechanism of prediction, yes? As in, knowing a state, you can 'determine' what the future states will be?

If so, you couldn't be more incorrect.

Jekyll
12/21/2004 7:08pm,
Jekyll, what precisely do you mean by 'deterministic'. It seems to imply some mechanism of prediction, yes? As in, knowing a state, you can 'determine' what the future states will be?

If so, you couldn't be more incorrect.

de·ter·mine
7)Mathematics. To fix or define the position, form, or configuration of.
Sorry, the maths jargon slipped though.

I ment it as in, take a macroscopic system (no quantum thingies) set it up, run it, something happens. Set it up exactly the same and run it and exactly the same thing happens.

The setup determines the process, hence deterministic. I did not use it to mean predictable and it is also different from predetermined.

TheManchu
12/21/2004 8:20pm,
After finishing my course in Philosophy of Religion, I figured why not open a debate on here about it.
Three main areas

1. Free-will, does it exist and what are it's implications?

I made you ask this question. What choice did I have?

Equipoise
12/21/2004 8:50pm,
:-/ .

Dio
12/22/2004 12:18am,
1. Free-will, does it exist and what are it's implications?

2. Is evil/suffering absolutely necessary and what is the justification in the suffering?

3. Is there such a thing as immortality?

1.) Free will does exist, because humans have the ability to go against the instinctive behaviors dictated by biology, if they so wish. The argument might exist that it's all just brain chemicals, but I believe there's something more to it than just which hormones we currently are high on.

2.) Evil is necessary as a concept, but not as a practice. Suffering would be that practice, but it can be implied or fantasized rather than witnessed in order to provide the necessary contrast for a "good" to be understood.

3.) Immortality? Not physically. All things die, but more importantly all things must change. Dynamic evolution of life is what keeps the world from becoming stagnant. And working within a time limit always puts things in perspective for me, I think.