PDA

View Full Version : Beginner Classes vs. Jumping in



Pages : [1] 2

Can Chaser
11/17/2004 1:00am,
There seem to be two basic schools of thought regarding getting a noob started. Firstly, put them in a special beginner class with fellow noobs, and they essentially learn primarily from the instructor. They all know about the same stuff and feel like they're learning because they're not getting pwned by sparring with somebody who knows more than them. That, however, brings up the other method - having mixed classes, probably larger with a bit less one-on-one time with the instructor. However, it seems to me that both the more advanced students and the beginners benefit from it. The noobs obviously benefit by being taught things and and being asswhipped by the experienced folks, who also learn from coaching the beginners and having to break the things down that they know, in order to teach them, and whatnot.


Thoughts?

feedback
11/17/2004 1:11am,
at SBG, for technical stuff like Submission Wrestling, we put them into beginner classes. For the standup sparring classes, people pretty much are "thrown in".

CrimsonTiger
11/17/2004 1:16am,
The problem with the "thrown in" style is that if the other students are assholes, they don't actually help the young'uns.

The teacher sets the attitude.

TaeBo_Master
11/17/2004 1:19am,
*shrug* When i used to train WT, the class did basic drills together and stuff. Then the advanced students moved off to do their stuff, and the beginners did their stuff. There was always at least one advanced student rotated out to work with the n00bs, and the Sifu went back and forth. Seemed like a pretty good way to do things to me.

deus ex machina
11/17/2004 1:20am,
How about having both? At my academy we have a "blue belt exam" class that only white belts can go to. It's run by one of the purple belts and he basically runs over all the requirements of the blue belt exam (i.e. the basics). By limiting to only white belts, I'd imagine that the frustration a beginner usually feels is lessened. They meet once a week, and all the other classes are open to everyone, so in a way, the beginner isn't limited to what classes he can attend, but at the same time he can catch up to the regulars a little faster.

CrimsonTiger
11/17/2004 1:32am,
THAT is a great system.

In my dojo, it used to be similar...beginners (orange and below) were in one class, with a limited number of higher ranks allowed to attend (if schedule conflicts occured for later classes), and lower ranks could stay for the higher-belt class once they were invited by a senior. It was a bit selective, but it kept the classes from being too crowded, and it worked out well.

PizDoff
11/17/2004 1:43am,
I agree with the last three posts.
It would help the growth of the newbs with more senior students thrown into those classes.

The system TaeBo_Master describe was how it went in my WC class as well, another WC school I went to was smaller so everyone was together.

CrimsonTiger
11/17/2004 1:48am,
Good teaching techniques...and yet WT/WC/VT/Limpwristedslapfighting still sucks ass.

Geez.

TaeBo_Master
11/17/2004 2:01am,
STFU n00b.

DCS
11/17/2004 4:33am,
*shrug* When i used to train WT, the class did basic drills together and stuff. Then the advanced students moved off to do their stuff, and the beginners did their stuff. There was always at least one advanced student rotated out to work with the n00bs, and the Sifu went back and forth. Seemed like a pretty good way to do things to me.

Somedays we do this and somedays pairing noobs with advanced students in a sempai-kohai relationship, also called the "make me your biaaatch,plz." method, is used.

Kayne
11/17/2004 4:56am,
Apparently, my instructor's sensei would intentionally throw brand-new students into sparring matches with experienced students, with the intention of basically kicking the **** out of the newbies. If they came back, then they were ready to train. You probably couldn't get away with it today, especially not with women, but it seems like a good way of sorting the preverbial 'chaff' from the 'wheat'.

Jekyll
11/17/2004 6:43am,
Happened to me, I'd only done "semi-contact" before and didnt know ****, they made sure I wasnt to concussed then sent me home.

I came back the next week going "I want to learn how to do that".

CrimsonTiger
11/17/2004 10:39am,
So wait...

You take good potential students...kick the crap out of them, possibly injuring them in the process (which could potentially affect their careers, personal lives, etc.) and then the knuckleheads who come back aching to learn "how to kick ass" are the ones they kept...

Yeah, real bright. There's a reason many of the "old school" people I know from dojos, gyms, etc. are real assholes of questionable character. i don't expect people to be saints, but when many of them fled the country or have records with the police? Yeah, just the type of people I want to hang with.

Just because it's old and "hardcore" doesn't mean it was a good way of doing things.

OC Kid
11/17/2004 10:39am,
My first dojo the one I orginally got ranked in, My instructor would have mixed classes.

It has its advantages.
You can see how the techiques work, exposed to more advanced techniques
You tend to learn a little faster as you become competitive with the upper ranks
The upper ranks will help you learn the techniques.
You spend more time on the basics and get a better foundation

Down side is
You spend less time on the begining basics and have less of a understanding of them.

We had a guy who was a real sadistic insecure asshole. He used to call the white belts 2 legged punching bags and beat the **** out of them

sometimes hurting them pretty bad. He discouraged them from learning,

made fun of them and most of the time they quit and went to either another school or
quit the MA all together with a bad taste in their mouths.
We (me and my 2 best buds) evetually caught up with this guy in rank and passed him, then we made sport of beating the **** out of him and it was sweet. One point tournament My buddy greg and I fought like hell to get to face this guy, luck of the draw had it greg got him.
Greg knocked his stupid ass out innna poinnt tournment no less....hehehehe I got it on video tape and you can here people in thhe crowd laughing and loving it when this ass hole hit the deck.
This macho (at least thhat what he told himself and tried to act like) never made it to B/B though the rest of us did and he ended up quitting after he kept getting the **** beat outta hims, there was no mercy even from visiting B/b who knew of his rep. his little group of yahoos 20 years later are back trying to make rank with out him and ya know what... Id **** them up inna New York minute or my students would..Just for grins cuz they were assholes too.
So there ya ya go...

WingChun Lawyer
11/17/2004 10:55am,
So wait...

You take good potential students...kick the crap out of them, possibly injuring them in the process (which could potentially affect their careers, personal lives, etc.) and then the knuckleheads who come back aching to learn "how to kick ass" are the ones they kept...

Yeah, real bright. There's a reason many of the "old school" people I know from dojos, gyms, etc. are real assholes of questionable character. i don't expect people to be saints, but when many of them fled the country or have records with the police? Yeah, just the type of people I want to hang with.

Just because it's old and "hardcore" doesn't mean it was a good way of doing things.

I agree, that is incredibly stupid. At the MT gym the first sparring matches are usually light, so the student gets to know the movements and the techniques first hand, while gaining a bit of confidence. The hard contact only begins by the second and third sparring match, and by that time the new guy has a very good idea of the level of contact considered acceptable.

If they had beaten me like a dog the first time I spared, I would not have come back for more. Since they didnīt, I was encouraged to learn the skills shown by the advanced students, and yesterday I finally managed to land a very solid hit on one of them.

I disagree with the McDojo "everyone is a winner" attitute towards students, but then I believe no special effort should be made to make their lives miserable. The gym is not the army, after all.

NextGuard
11/17/2004 11:40am,
I agree with the last three posts.
It would help the growth of the newbs with more senior students thrown into those classes.




What about the growth of the senior students? Not everyone is focused on becoming an instructor and even if they are the constant introduction of new students who have to learn the basics can really slow things down, that is if everyone is being sensitive to the needs of the newbies.