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Scrapper
11/16/2004 5:33pm,
Iraqui insurgents have just murdered an aid worker. Just another in a long line of civilians kidnapped, held hostage, and murdered.

These insurgents (and by insurgents I mean "cowardly murdering pieces of ****") feel that this technique will effectively discourage the US and its allies in their Iraq operations. They want the US out, and the murder of civillians is the technique they feel will be most effective.

Now this forum has lots of left and right wingers with lots of opinions on whether or not we belong in Iraq. Please debate that somewhere else. My question is this: How do we stop terrorism in IRaq (or anywhere else I suppose). If we pull out, we prove that these techniques are effective, thus guranteeing the use of said tactics int he future. If we don't pull out, the killings continue anyway. So what do we do?

I don't care whether or not you think we should be in Iraq. I want solutions. Please don't post the any solutions involving Djimbe, Chi, Serious Harm, or nuclear weapons (OK...nukes are in play). Please.


Hajime.

The Wastrel
11/16/2004 5:36pm,
Step One: stop sorting everyone in Iraq who opposes the US and the appointed government into one gigantic Tupperware container marked "Decepticons". As far as it is known, the Sadrists haven't executed any civilian captives, or any captives at all, I think. While marines, soldiers and civilian contractors have been accused and/or convicted of murder and rape of their captives. Obviously, generalizing from those examples to make conclusions about the character of the entire military, or to American policy, leads to less-than-reliable conclusions.

Shuma-Gorath
11/16/2004 5:37pm,
How many Muslim allies does the United States have left? Jordan? Saudi oil buddies (NOT GAY)? Because, I feel that the only way to totally undermine Islam-centirc terrorism in Iraq is to get several Muslim nations involved in its reconstruction.

Right now, this is at best a pipe dream.

The Wastrel
11/16/2004 5:40pm,
Step Two: stop trying to undermine Islamo-Centrism in the Middle East; not going to happen. Terrorism...is an entirely different bag of tricks.

Scrapper
11/16/2004 5:43pm,
Agreed.....We need Islam in general to stop supporting and condoning this activity. Absolutely step one.

Ka-Bar
11/16/2004 5:45pm,
I think Muslim nations are loathe to get involved because their involvement will be seen as heresy, worse than the actions of the American "infidels" who don't know better.

Thus, these Muslim allies of the U.S. will be targeted more vigorously and killed more viciously.

See Turkey for further details.

Scrapper
11/16/2004 5:45pm,
Well that's depressing as all hell.

The Wastrel
11/16/2004 5:47pm,
I think Muslim nations are loathe to get involved because their involvement will be seen as heresy, worse than the actions of the American "infidels" who don't know better.

Thus, these Muslim allies of the U.S. will be targeted more vigorously and killed more viciously.

See Turkey for further details.

Ka-Bar is correct. Look at pre-1967 Arab politics.

The Wastrel
11/16/2004 5:48pm,
Ultimately the problem is that the question is, "How does the US fix the Middle East?" And what kind of question is that?

Scrapper
11/16/2004 5:51pm,
In the event of an impasse, greater force always prevails....Do we do as Bush is trying to do and hunt as many of them down as possible? If the situation is hopeless from a diplomatic perspective, is not the "War on terror" the only viable solution, albeit an unpleasant and unpopular one? That's what I want to know...If there is antoher way besides aggressive, and pre-emptive military action...I want to use it. If we can get Islam to censure these activities,I think we would be much closer to a non-violent solution. But as previously stated...is it just a pipe dream?

The Wastrel
11/16/2004 6:02pm,
In the event of an impasse, greater force always prevails....Do we do as Bush is trying to do and hunt as many of them down as possible? If the situation is hopeless from a diplomatic perspective, is not the "War on terror" the only viable solution, albeit an unpleasant and unpopular one? That's what I want to know...If there is antoher way besides aggressive, and pre-emptive military action...I want to use it. If we can get Islam to censure these activities,I think we would be much closer to a non-violent solution. But as previously stated...is it just a pipe dream?

Seriously now, "Islam" is not exactly the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints; it's not as organized or centralized as the Catholic or Armenian or Eastern Orthodox Churches. Asking for unified behavior from "Islam" is like asking for it from "Christianity". It's an incoherent expectation. Plenty of prominent Islamic clerics have condemned acts of terrorism. Others from other sects, particularly influenced by the writings of Ahmad ibn Taymiyya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Taymiyya) have chosen to interpret the Qu'ran in a manner that permits such acts.

The situation isn't hopeless from a diplomatic perspective. The only problem the United States has had in that regard was in the waging and the aftermath of the Iraq war. That hardly means diplomacy is "hopeless". It might bespeak the follies of the cause, for example.

Scrapper
11/16/2004 6:07pm,
Seriously now, "Islam" is not exactly the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints; it's not as organized or centralized as the Catholic or Armenian or Eastern Orthodox Churches. Asking for unified behavior from "Islam" is like asking for it from "Christianity". It's an incoherent expectation. Plenty of prominent Islamic clerics have condemned acts of terrorism. Others from other sects, particularly influenced by the writings of Ahmad ibn Taymiyya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Taymiyya) have chosen to interpret the Qu'ran in a manner that permits such acts.

The situation isn't hopeless from a diplomatic perspective. The only problem the United States has had in that regard was in the waging and the aftermath of the Iraq war. That hardly means diplomacy is "hopeless". It might bespeak the follies of the cause, for example.


Perhaps I should have referred to it as "Traditional middle-eastern Islam: As practiced in countries such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Qatar, etc." Or something along those lines. What I am talking about is the very people these extremeists claim to represent...I.E> Muslims, need to stop condoning this as a first step. I'll even stipulate that US foreign policy has made it easy to not like us, but the murder of civillians needs to never be OK. That was my point.

Yours is well taken, tho.

Xango
11/16/2004 6:09pm,
Walmart, and digital television, will take care of this problem long-term, assuming as always that Iran doesn't really want to explode things as badly as all that. In the meantime, I hear the Israelis are doing wondrous things with unarmed drones.

Scrapper
11/16/2004 6:11pm,
Unmitigated capitalism will certainly make a dent in anti-US sentiment, but it is kinda slow-moving tho.

The Wastrel
11/16/2004 6:15pm,
Unmitigated capitalism will certainly make a dent in anti-US sentiment, but it is kinda slow-moving tho.

No. "Unmitigated capitalism" will not. Also, what is this supposed to mean?


What I am talking about is the very people these extremeists claim to represent...I.E> Muslims, need to stop condoning this as a first step.

Have you even bothered to look at official and unofficial reaction among Arabs to 9/11 and the beheading murders? The disapproval is there. It does not matter.

Freddy
11/16/2004 6:16pm,
In my opinion how the U.S. is going to fix the problem in the middle east is simply get less involved in that region. As some of you already know historically various western powers have intervene in that region (not to mention the Third world in general) and Western troops will always be a lighting rod there. To reduce terrorism globally the distribution of wealth needs to be spread more among Third World nations and reduce the effect of poverty and to make those poorer nations more economically viable and sustainible. Give them better living conditions and decent social security.
Lose the corporate agenda and stop making Iraq pay for their reconstruction. (Its not winning their hearts and mind by doing that). America should consider the prospect of giving the right to self determination to the various ethnic factions fighting. Give the kurds a land of their own they been fighting for decads they deserve it. Give the shiite a land of their own and positive incentives to keep away from Iranian Islamic extreamism. After all borders of Iraq were artificially cut and pasted by the West after WW2.