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Pandinha
11/11/2004 8:17pm,
I was spending some time at subfighter.com and got into a frank discussion with the resident moron.

http://www.subfighter.com/ftopicp-50572.html#50568

It was like, a gift. He just gave it to me.

supercrap
11/11/2004 8:29pm,
Too easy...

Reminds me of this story -

Resident hardman in my old town was known to all as 'Rocky.'

Rocky comes out of his house one day to find two punks scrapping in the street. Rocky goes up to said punks and says 'Oi! Cut that out! Nobody fights in my street!' One kid runs away and the other looks at him and says 'Don't **** with me man! You know who I am???' So Rocky says 'No, who are you?' and the kid says 'I'M ROCKY! Heard of me?' So Rocky says 'Yes. Yes I have.' PUNCH!

Yeah, kind of like that.

Transcendent Sunchips
11/11/2004 8:41pm,
"lull you into a false sense of security by making you think that I'm not perfect and that you stand a chance of busting my chops; little do you know that my chops are un-bustable."

- Maddox

tkdan28
11/11/2004 9:37pm,
Too easy...

Reminds me of this story -

Resident hardman in my old town was known to all as 'Rocky.'

Rocky comes out of his house one day to find two punks scrapping in the street. Rocky goes up to said punks and says 'Oi! Cut that out! Nobody fights in my street!' One kid runs away and the other looks at him and says 'Don't **** with me man! You know who I am???' So Rocky says 'No, who are you?' and the kid says 'I'M ROCKY! Heard of me?' So Rocky says 'Yes. Yes I have.' PUNCH!

Yeah, kind of like that. .
guy goes into a bar.... sees a depressed man and tries to help...
"what's the problem dude?"
"Just my life, see that road out there?"
"Yeah"
"I built that road... do they call me Mike the Road Builder?"
"uh, no?"
"No!... see that dock over there?"
"Yeah"
"Built it with my own two hands... do they call me Mike the Dock Builder?"
"guessing no?"
"No! But you **** one goat...."

Red Elvis
11/11/2004 9:56pm,
I was spending some time at subfighter.com and got into a frank discussion with the resident moron.

http://www.subfighter.com/ftopicp-50572.html#50568

It was like, a gift. He just gave it to me.

Now that was funny... BTW, in a later reply he comments

"Explaining a diet doesnt mean he has eaten with you."

What is that about? I trained with Royce for over 2 1/2 years and never ate with him. Does that mean that I fall into this category ----> "You are SIMPLY an over excited fan, who thinks he knows everything about the people he dreams about."

LMAO....

FHoppy
11/11/2004 10:24pm,
guy goes into a bar.... sees a depressed man and tries to help...
"what's the problem dude?"
"Just my life, see that road out there?"
"Yeah"
"I built that road... do they call me Mike the Road Builder?"
"uh, no?"
"No!... see that dock over there?"
"Yeah"
"Built it with my own two hands... do they call me Mike the Dock Builder?"
"guessing no?"
"No! But you **** one goat...."

The depressed guy's name is supposed to be Tucker.

Jolly_Roger
11/11/2004 10:32pm,
You are, according to that moron, a Gracie-Worshipper.
Do you have any holydays where naked chicks dance, and, if you do, can I join?

Aesopian
11/11/2004 10:34pm,
Anthony, you're probably familiar with the usual issues people have with Rorion. Since you know him in person, what are your thoughts on these claims?

Red Elvis
11/11/2004 10:39pm,
You are, according to that moron, a Gracie-Worshipper.
Do you have any holydays where naked chicks dance, and, if you do, can I join?

Yes I do!!! There is a holiday I like to attend called "Mooning the Amtrack" that occurs every year. I worship the 12 ounce (repeatedly all day) in addition to all the naked chicks.

http://www.moonamtrak.org/

Red Elvis
11/11/2004 10:41pm,
Anthony, you're probably familiar with the usual issues people have with Rorion. Since you know him in person, what are your thoughts on these claims?

True, true and....umm, true. Red, no blue... ahhhhhhhhh

Just outa curiosity Aesopian, what are the issues?

Aesopian
11/11/2004 10:53pm,
Carlson Gracie Sr. has issues with him:


T: And Rorion? How is your relationship with him nowadays?

CG: The problem with him is that he trademarked the name "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" in the U.S. but he's not going to keep me from using "Carlson Gracie". Like I said, I want nothing to do with "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu". I am "Carlson Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" . Nowadays, the "Gracie Jiu-Jitsu" is old. They say that strength doesn't count, but it does. Maybe it wouldn't make a difference if the opponent didn't know anything. If the opponent knows something, then the strength starts to count. Carlson Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is a combination. It's endurance, technique, etc. I'm not going to have a student of mine who's 90Kg (198Lbs) fight someone who weighs 130Kg (286Lbs) and is very good also. They're lost, they've stopped in time and space. Along with my students, I've evolved the Jiu-Jitsu even further. They call themselves the best, but they don't prove it. In the U.S., they don't enter their students into any outside competitions. Let me tell you a little story about Rorion. Every day Rorion used to come to me and ask me if I knew how to speak English, and I would say no, I didn't know how at all, and he would keep asking me and Rillion every day. Then he invited us to do a television interview with him. He was sitting in the middle, and Rillion & I were on either side. I couldn't understand a thing. All I understood him saying was "Rillion Gracie and Carlson Gracie" once in a while, and pointing at us. OK, one month goes by, and I was here in Brazil when a friend of mine called me to say: "Carlson, I saw the interview with you, Rorion and Rillion in the U.S., he only told lies." "You don't know any English, do you?" "He only said bullshit, and you were practically agreeing with him." "He would talk and turn to the sides saying that you and Rillion were there to confirm it." Then I went to my friend's house, for him to translate exactly what was said. Then I found out that Rorion said that he was a national champion for 20 years and had never lost and that he had invented the Gracie diet. He even said that my dad was just a fucking assistant of his and that it was Helio Gracie who brought Jiu-Jitsu to Brazil. Lies over lies! When I found out, I was so mad! Source: http://bjj.org/interviews/carlson-1997.html

Roy Harris (http://www.royharris.com/) has these stories:


Next, I was told to continue my private training with Royce. However, I ended up taking just group classes instead, and I learned a ton of stuff from Royce. He was a good teacher. However, I noticed certain things about the way he taught. For example, every now and then he would close the door to the training room, look out the window down the hall towards Rorion's office and say: "Don't tell Rorion I showed this to you, and don't do this when Rorion is around. Royce would then proceed to show us some really interesting stuff." I thought his actions were a bit peculiar, but none the less, I kept on enjoying Jiu Jitsu!

...

My training at the Gracie Academy continued until August of 1992. At that time, an article had been written about me in the San Diego Union and Tribune newspaper. This article caused Rorion to re-evaluate my training there. Rorion told me that it was not fair that I make money off of him by teaching Jiu Jitsu. He said I would now have to pay him $100 per class if I was going to continue training at the Academy. I told Rorion the following:

"I told you (Rorion) about the self-defense class I taught at the University on several occasions. I even asked you if it was all right if I taught the students a few Gracie Jiu Jitsu techniques. You said it was OK as long as I didn't wear a Gracie Jiu Jitsu shirt while teaching."

"I also told you (Rorion) that I make $60 a month teaching my self-defense, and that I would give you $30 of it because you were my instructor."

I also said, "Rorion, I am paying $240 a month to train with you and your brothers (not to mention the driving time, the gas and the headache of dealing with LA traffic). I have done all of this for almost two years now. Doesn't that show you the kind of loyalty I have for you and your brothers?"

To this Rorion replied, "I am sorry my friend. But this is my final offer." I said, "Rorion, paying $100 per class would mean I would be paying $1400 a month to continue my training with you. I don't have that kind of money." He said, "I am sorry."

So, I shook his hand and left the Academy for the last time. That was a very sad day in my martial arts training experience! I was heart broken after that incident. I had dumped my soul into that Academy (not to mention my loyalty to Rorion and Royce) and now I was being treated like a number.

...

P.S. Rorion, if you are reading this, I hope you know you hurt me a lot on that day. I had put a lot of trust into you, your brothers and your academy, and because you allowed money to come between us, I felt like my loyatly to you meant nothing, and that really hurt! I thought I was your friend because you called me your friend. Source: http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/ug/roymyj.html

I can find more on this forum and others, but I figured that'd be a good start.

Wounded Ronin
11/11/2004 10:54pm,
Owned, nice work.

Here is Cyndicate's weak comeback:



Im not in a popularity contest with you, but if I were to take a poll, to see who knew whos name more, I bet more people would know who the cyndicate is. Your nothing, a nobody. You choose to worship people, and follow them, while I choose to lead.



Yeah, he's clearly a big leader.

Red Elvis
11/11/2004 11:03pm,
Carlson Gracie Sr. has issues with him:

Source: http://bjj.org/interviews/carlson-1997.html

Roy Harris (http://www.royharris.com/) has these stories:

Source: http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/ug/roymyj.html

I can find more on this forum and others, but I figured that'd be a good start.

Man, I have some comments regarding the second article but I'm hesitant to post them here. The problem is that I still live here and it's a small community. Suffice to say that I am not not going to call Bullshido on anything I read. There was some serious political shite going on even when I was there and that was after Roy left. ('94-'96).

<biting tongue>

Edit: Just read it again... <biting harder>

Edit #2 - I am curious if Anthony's reply would be the same as mine due to the different times/climates involved in our training at the Acadamy. Looking forward to your reply to Aesopian's question Anthony.
:user:

Red Elvis
11/11/2004 11:08pm,
Yeah, he's clearly a big leader.

Yeah, a leader like the fastest lemming in the pack... "whoo hoo I'm fast, I'm gonna be the first guy to reach that tropical paradise over that bluff top... oh no, that's not a tropical paradise but a cliff.... ahhhhhhhhh"

Pandinha
11/12/2004 1:23am,
I trained at the Gracie Academy for the better part of 2003. I didn't really know the political climate till about 3 or 4 months in. I was just happy to learn.

I consider Rorion a friend, and got to know him a little better than the average student, as I worked for him in a roundabout way as his webmaster. I thought it was fantastic that my training was free, and I will always thank my buddy and boss Bernie for giving me this perk. I originally wasn't the webmaster, but took over the responsibilities because of the love I had for GJJ. I was more of a marketing guy.

Alot of people hate on Rorion because he is an astute businessman. Put yourselves in his shoes, you have this product, that only you have, well you and your brothers. You believe in this product, and it has been tested time and time again to be the best, bar none.

Unfortunately it is information. One cannot contain information, it will spread. I believe Rorion did what he could to contain it and reap as much benefit as he could and still can due to it. From a business standpiont, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is solid business practice, hold on to market share as much as you can.

Some people don't like it, and the methods. This happens in daily life all the time. Microsoft is a prime example.

But getting back to my experiences, I found Rorion to be a warm and caring person. I felt like family every day I trained at the Academy. One of the saddest moments leaving was having Rener tell me that seeing me train every day was a constant thing. I actually feel a loss not training there anymore.

As for him being cutthroat, or an asshole as a person... I did some time sensitive stuff for the gracieacademy.com and igjjf.com websites. Making sure info was correct and their billing worked. I made mistakes, and not one time did I ever receive any type of dressing down or made to feel a jackass for making them. I found them to be a great family.

Was information ever held back? I was an impasse about this, with the training I received after the Gracie Academy. Other BJJ instructors taught more, at a quicker pace. My last instructor in Canada, (Which is the same as JKDChick's) teachings were probably the closest to what I experienced in Torrance. More oriented for real world, and not sport. I took some time off to study Judo, and when I went back to BJJ, I found that I didn't lose much technique wise at all. Just conditioning. Looking back at it, this tells me the repitiions of passing the guard, and flowing from position to position with the constant repititions that we did at the Gracie Academy paid off. It is a part of me. Slapping a triangle on a Judo Brown Belt with my off leg without thinking even surprised me.

All in all, my training, relationships, and feelings about Rorion, the boys, and the academy are excellent. It is a period of my life that I will always cherish. I sent an email to Rorion about a month or so ago about some pics I found on the web not expecting an answer back. Getting one back with a simple, "You are missed Bro" made me smile.

In a not so small nutshell, why I am their biggest jock rider and defender online.

Jolly_Roger
11/12/2004 6:32am,
Yes I do!!! There is a holiday I like to attend called "Mooning the Amtrack" that occurs every year. I worship the 12 ounce (repeatedly all day) in addition to all the naked chicks.

http://www.moonamtrak.org/


Where do I join?