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Boyd
1/30/2003 11:01pm,
When we think of a McDojo, we usually tend to form this universal image of a candy-colored room in a strip mall, adorned with various catalogue-bought banners proclaiming things like "We are a BLACK BELT school!" and "Try your hardest...otherwise, you'll never win!". We think of six-year-old nidans, death-defying palm-heel strikes, and of course, patches. Lots and lots of patches. That much is obvious.

Seems to me that a lot of posters here have had some degree of experience with the McDojo phenomenon. Pretty much everyone at my dojo trained in one at some point or another, leaving with little more than some funny stories to tell and some shining example of what NOT to do. What I want to know from you guys is, what the hell DID you work on? Did you spend all day doing wrist locks on each other, point-sparring maybe? Was there a focus on moves that were mainly athletic, like flying kicks? Were you ever chastised for resisting a technique? When you did kata, what was the mentality? Was it "this is a set pattern designed to help you fight off multiple attackers" or did you really not think about it?

Have you ever seen a turtle get down?
Slammin', jammin' to the new sweet sound?

Stold
1/30/2003 11:04pm,
Wrist locks, point sparring and forms. Lots..and..lots ....off.....forms.....
RRAAAAAWRFGGFRGG

STOLD NO LIKE TKD STOMP STOMP HERE THERE PUNCH STOMP FORMS

FingerorMoon?
1/31/2003 1:08am,
I've never done the mcdojo thing myself but at my work (its a big company, don't know the guy personally) ran a 6 week course.

It was Akido. He advertised that age, gender, fitness, strength were all irrelevant in regard to your ability to defend yourself using these techniques.

I found that......interesting.



--------
Master of Lay Ze Do
--------

Blad3
1/31/2003 10:19am,
once when I resisted a technqiue the "master" seemed quite suprised/found it amusing but couldn't get the hold on.

Lots of wrists locks and supposedly nearly guranteed finishing techqiues. Also a "light" kickboxing association of was with hardly every did any sparring...and it was light contact.

jing shen gou
1/31/2003 10:38am,
The school I'm at looked as if it was going down McDojo road. But It didn't. Turns out I made a mistake and mis understood the aproach.
Every thing was cleard up.


the world you live in is just a sugar coated toping. beneath it is another world. The real world. and to survive there you must learn to pull the trigger!!!-Blade

JKDChick
1/31/2003 10:59am,
Kicked into stationary pads, mostly. Lots of forms. Ki-up'ed a lot. Knelt on the floor. Point sparred, no contact to the head. Became deeply frustrated and in debt. Learned to hate the ATA/WTTU with all my heart and sooul.

(board breaks with a kick)
"Is that it? I feel like I should bow, or have honor or something."
-- Buffy the Vampire Slayer, "Once More, With Feeling"

ninjamike
1/31/2003 11:22am,
We did tons of forms. TONS! I'll admit it was an ATA school. My instructor before then (also ATA) was great. For black belts, we'd do full contact sparring, takedowns and groundfighting. I'd have to wash blood out of my uniform every week! He eventually left, because the organization was heading downhill (still is, IMO). Then my next instructor was all about learning forms. We went from having 3 midterm tests between 2nd and 3rd degree to 6. All of it was just added forms and drills. We sparred (rarely) and it was only point sparring, like JKD chick described. I'd always have to go back home and spar with my other friends who were Black Belts in order to feel like I did anything.

SamHarber
1/31/2003 11:31am,
JuJitsu club at university.... Spent most of our time doing techniques shown from the sylabus book, despite their appalingly innefectual nature.
Whenever I sparred against the instructor, I just walked all over him. It was embarrasing.
A kung fu class trained next to us (shaolin I think) and they spent all their time doing unfeasibly high kicks (6 to 7 feet off the ground)and hitting pads. They were still probably better than us.

matzahbal
1/31/2003 12:50pm,
An unbelievable amount of forms. They were a mix of Kajukenbo kempo inspired forms and Kyoshinken (sp?), after black belt you got to learn kung fu forms. Of course, we were told they were 2000 years old, or at the very least led to believe that

plus blocking systems, some were kempo, some where chinese

a number of 'on paper' techniques that you had to know plus you had to know a number of extracuricular techniques of course if the guy did something while you were doing the techniques they wouldn't work. Of course only at black belt level you can practice the techniques against a left handed attacker

grab defense that didn't really work when the guys resisted or used alot good amount of strength. One was great (sarcasm), what to do if two guys used both of their hands to grab one of your hands on both sides, the instructr wanted us to twist our body and have the guys slame into us.

Oh yeah, and I can't forget the classic point sparring

On knife defenses I do have to give them credit on, most of them were in reason and used some good principals. Club defenses on the other hand, half good, half really bad. I remember I got my instructor with a wooden stick when he was showing how to do it. It was your classic cross back, so I was relax and my wrist kept on turning with the stick and POP! right on top of the head.



"But some apes they gotta go, so we kill the ones we don't know" - 'Ape shall never kill Ape' by The Vandals

magikchiongson
1/31/2003 1:28pm,
Northern Long Fist, we were taught how to defend ourselves against someone trying to shake your hand, or the ever lethal tap on the shoulder.

Continous Sparring, which is better than Point Sparring but the concepts were really stupid. Like this kid actually jumped up in the air and did this tornado looking kick, I was surprised that anyone would be stupid enough to try that it hit me right on the head (no pads or helmets) then he fell on his ass because somehow my head stopped his kick... Then this 4'11 Mexican dude tried this jumping twirling looking backfist thing.... The tall lanky folks, well they had no clue what to do after we were inside kicking distance...

I felt no difference in fighting ability between the black belts and the white belts, I knocked out a brown belt, getting in behind them was comically easy. The only people I had trouble with, were our 220lb plus San Shou students.

Its a shame really, Sifu was one of the best, I saw him answer a challenge at his school and knocked the crap out of the challenger easily, yet it was plainly obvious that we were being taught was Mcdojo stuff. So you had a bunch of students running around knowing theoritically what to do in their minds, but their bodies didn't know it.

taifu
1/31/2003 1:39pm,
What do you guys expect to learn? Sounds like you all need to get out in the street and teach yourselves, hey? Since nobody makes you all happy.

I have an idea, why don't you all start your own "shops" and teach martial arts, according to you!

Omen Stone
1/31/2003 1:51pm,
lol I think they know that counter productive Taifu, that makes mcdojo's not stop them.
I'd amit I was turned off this one tkd school after seeing a 6 year old kid wearing a black belt fall over and cry like a bitch cause he missed a high kick. the floor was well matted too it look more confortable then my bed.

"A California man has been taken to court for stalking Anna Nicole Smith. The man has been charged with invasion of privacy, illegal trespassing, and having really bad taste."-Conan

The Wastrel
1/31/2003 2:06pm,
Taifu, if you're an instructor then I think you have a defensive or unprofessional attitude. I suggest that you stop writing yourself into the examples people give and just admit that there are a lot of really crappy martial arts schools out there. If you're providing a service or a product for money, then you should expect to have it evaluated by clientele.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

taifu
1/31/2003 2:19pm,
I do not dis-agree with you! Defensive or unprofessional attitude, I don't think so. There are bad everything out there. It seems to me, the only people bitching are the ones who most likely do not study anywhere. There are only a handful of people on this site that bitch, there is only a regular handful on this forum to begin with.

I hear members of "the handful" bitching and calling certain large professional successful chains of MA centers "mcdojo's". According to whom, the consumer? If that were the case, these organizations would not be in business making millions! But according to the handful they are "mcdojo's" because they charge money.

Seems to me, the consumer likes what they are doing, thats why they are large and profitable.

I am willing to bet all the tea in the forbidden city in China, that if the dopes that bitch about mcdojo's could make lots of money teaching what they love, they wouldn't be talking the **** they do here, sorry, but they are FLUNKIES! Not the "shops" that make a killing.

Now, if you want to talk about the herk-ama-jerk down the street who takes your money and leaves when the paint has yet to dry, thats one thing. Or the guy that claims to have the secrets to life and survival I would tend to scratch my head.

But a successful martial arts center or organization that is making tons of money and are successful, the consumer has spoken.

Now you'll say "well they don't know anybetter", my question would be, according to who, somebody on this forum? DOUBTFUL

PeedeeShaolin
1/31/2003 2:34pm,
Taifu is a troll. He is also prejudiced against Muslims.

Alot of schools SUCK. Just because something sells doesnt mean SHIIT. I've worked in a few schools and the truth is parents 1- dont know WHAT to look for and 2- will take their kids to ANYTHING convenient.

McDonalds is not good food yet fast food is some of the most popular food in this country.

taifu
1/31/2003 2:37pm,
Mr. PeedeeShaolin;

YOU SUCK! PUNK!