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silentdog
1/10/2003 5:17pm,
for those who thought looking at knives in a fight actually was a good idea in another thread i suggest watching this movie:

http://www.noxshuz.com/ATIENZA/VIDEO/atienzakali.mov

they also made another one about streetfighting which i found to be quite impressive (regardless of the advertisement):

http://www.noxshuz.com/ATIENZA/VIDEO/JCNEW5.mov

and another one which shows them at "training" :)

http://www.noxshuz.com/ATIENZA/VIDEO/MediaPA.mov

enjoy and post your comments!

(quicktime required for all movies)

The Wastrel
1/10/2003 6:16pm,
Greese1,
I guess it might seem intuitive for you to think that looking at the knife is the best way to keep an eye on it, but the movements of the weapon and the hand can be far more deceptive than the body. In foil fencing, we were taught to watch the bell guard, because it is a very large and obvious guide to the direction of the blade. But the foil is different because it's so long, the body doesn't indicate the movement of the weapon. However, with a much shorter weapon, like a knife, the body does.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Fisting Kittens
1/10/2003 6:48pm,
i'd be a lot more impressed if I didn't know a flow drill when I see one

The Wastrel
1/10/2003 10:02pm,
I had the same thought. This is an insane range to be fighting with knives.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Vargas
1/10/2003 11:41pm,
I just picked up a book by a guy named James LaFond. It's called The Logic of Steel and is a compilation of interviews and police/ER reports regarding fights involving at least one bladed weapon. Pretty gritty stuff. Among other things, I learned what a Puerto Rican Shield is (leather jacket wrapped around your forearm).

Knuckleduster
1/11/2003 12:31pm,
Osiris has it right.One lucky stab or slash and thats it game over your fuckin dead with worms eating your fuckin eyeballs.

The Wastrel
1/11/2003 12:57pm,
Who wouldn't run? That point is tired.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

frankyL
1/11/2003 2:43pm,
Until you have been in a real situation with a knife, can you then realize the associated dangers involved. Anyone is an expert with a knife, a knife take no power, takes no skills to cut someone. We can train all day long, with chaulk, pens, and whatever, and this is good for concentrating on our reactions, skills, etc. On the day when you face a knife, who knows what is going to happen. The knife can get you when you are not looking, a knife can get you when it is hidden from sight and/or comes out at the last minute, the attacker can even slip and fall and still cut you by accident. If you focus on the knife, the guy may throw a kick, focus on the kick and the guy throws a punch then stabs you which could end up with a hundred situations. Enough said about the attacker. What is important to note is what goes on in your own body when attacked by a knife. If you don't know, you won't feel the stab or the cut until a few seconds later, you will never know whether it is deep or not since a slight cut can bleed as much as a deep cut. Any ER nurse or Doctor can tell you more about knife cuts then any martial artist. If you see the knife at the last second, then panic sets in and you are fending for safety through your reactional skills. If you are approached by someone with a knife and you have no place to run, your body and legs goes kind of limp and weak, your mind has to determine whether this is really happening, your body goes into an instant sweat, and you have to fight off these feelings to find a way to survive. Knives and sharp weapons bring an instant fear factor to the table. Just make sure that people understand that a knife attack/defense isn't what is shown in the dojo's or schools. Just realize reality.
Be aware of your environment, always.
Now......anyone can say "yeah, but.....". Unless you have face the reality of a knife attack, thinking and visualizing about the way you think it will go down, instead of knowing what is really feels like is two different animals.

Why do you think people who promote knife defense and disarms do fairly well? It plays on the fear of most people, which is the knife.

The Wastrel
1/12/2003 12:19am,
Okay you scored the pun, but it's still true. This argument appears to be that you're actually better off not learning how to defend against a knife attack. Which is in some measure a defensible argument, given the problem of pride. Is this your argument? I have been attacked with a knife, and I did not run, and I did not get cut. I could just as easily argue that you don't know whether the other guy is faster than you are, so you shouldn't EVER run. Obviously a foolish claim.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Greese
1/12/2003 1:50am,
I still think it is foolish to not look at the knife. They can hit you with the other hand, but realistically, how many people will? Give even a good fighter a knife and he will tend to forget about all of his other weapons.

The Wastrel
1/12/2003 2:01am,
Greese1, the point is that looking at the knife won't necessarily give you a better idea of what's going on. I don't know for sure, this is just from my fencing.
Os, of course run. The argument about not running was a straw man meant to illustrate the kind of position you seem to be taking.

Edited to add: Os, one thing is I think you look at this from a street fighting perspective, and I tend to look at it from a slightly different, let's say "professional" perspective. And I don't mean from when I was in the army, I hate it when people talk about hand-to-hand bs on the battlefield.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Edited by - The Wastrel on January 12 2003 01:02:49

The Wastrel
1/12/2003 2:40am,
No, not criminal. Good god, I don't want to spell it out because I'll sound like a fraud.
My point in saying that was that we're arguing without paying attention to the meta-situation, and we're speaking different strategic languages, though we seem to agree on tactics. In the example above, I'd be willing to pay for someone's shoes if I besmirched them.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

The Wastrel
1/12/2003 3:02am,
Follow some of my other threads Os, you'll figure it out.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

Vargas
1/12/2003 3:07am,
Don't worry, Wastrel, I still think you're Hooah :)

The Wastrel
1/12/2003 3:12am,
Thanks Vargas. Wait? Do you mean HUA, as in "Head-Up-Ass"? That sounds right.

**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

silentdog
1/12/2003 4:53am,
greese1, you're right to some point. it's not necessarily about the other weapons like hands and legs. it's more simple than that: if you look directly at a weapon (be it stick, knife, hand or foot) you will most certainly be too slow to react.