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WhiteShark
9/01/2004 8:52am,
Ok I did this twice lastnight and I'm not sure what it is. Does anyone know a name for this move?

Description: I had Kesa Gatame with my right side against my opponents right side. I then tightened everything up and grabbed my right pant leg with my right hand while letting my opponents right arm out. Then I pushed his right arm up and into a paint-brush armlock position. But I passed my right leg over his arm and used my hips to complete the lock for the tap.

I know it's not really Omo plata because he was face up. The lock on him worked the same way a paint-brush armlock works but I did it with my leg. Also I'm pretty sure I didn't invent it! lol

Any ideas what I could search for to find a picture of this?

Ronin
9/01/2004 8:57am,
Something like this bro?

WhiteShark
9/01/2004 9:01am,
Almost, That looks like a straight armbar. I did a paint-brush lock like this:

http://www.bjj.org/techniques/aranha/valetudo/4.jpg

Ronin
9/01/2004 9:05am,
Yes, I understand, sorry, don't have THAt pic, but I do knwo what you are refering to, its like doing a "key lock", is that what you guys call it?, with your legs instead of using your arms, right?

WhiteShark
9/01/2004 9:23am,
Yeah keylock is as good a name as any it seems to have a lot of names and I always confuse it with the Kimura even though Kimura is with the arm pointing down.

It worked great whatever it was, and I had been frustrated by always stalling at Kesa Gatame since it is such a good pin for me.

WhiteShark
9/01/2004 9:33am,
YAY! I finally found a picture. This is pretty much it but I didn't need to cross my feet. And instead of the lever grip on the head I was holding my pants, so that I had a free arm.

This guy calls it just "Keylock with legs"

Beatdown Richie
9/01/2004 9:42am,
Yeah, it works nicely if the other guy hasn't learned to keep his arms in yet. I learned it in Judo - in BJJ doesn't seem to be so popular because the scarf hold isn't considered all that great. I don't think it has a special name.

WhiteShark
9/01/2004 9:51am,
Yeah, I've noticed that, why doesn't BJJ like scarf hold? Just not enough options? or is it considered vulnerable to some BJJ move I don't know?

Aesopian
9/01/2004 10:05am,
Per my instructor, the scarf hold is popular with judoka because it is a good pin and you can do some stuff from it, but it doesn't have as many options for submissions as some of the other side control positions, which makes it less used in BJJ.

Rock Mechanic
9/01/2004 10:06am,
I do scarf hold alot in training

my teacher then spends 10 mins telling everyone how easy it is to get out of and snapping me in half etc as he shows us (sorry I get them done to me so I don't see what techniques he does...)

but none of the guys I train with* have learnt how to get out of my scarf hold though and the loose arms is always a gift

*we stand up guys mostly

Aesopian
9/01/2004 10:20am,
The reason I knew that factoid on the position is because my instructor often ends a demonstration of a technique by going to scarf hold, so someone recently asked about it. He seemed to personally like the position, but expressed how most people would rather go for a more "active" side control, as in one that gives knee-on-belly and mount more easily.

Rock Mechanic
9/01/2004 10:22am,
one move he does is push my head/neck back and then

either;

hook a leg over and choke my neck

or

(from the position in pic above) get left forearm under my chin and then somehow flip me onto my back (must have the explosive power to get there) and then do a straightforward forearm choke or whatever evilness you fancy

WhiteShark
9/01/2004 10:33am,
That's odd both of those are easily countered...

The leg over one is countered by keeping your head low, or stacking if he gose for it.

The chin push is the classic opening for the head and arm choke.

Ronin
9/01/2004 10:36am,
In Judo it is probably called ashi ude gatame, or some **** like that.

Beatdown Richie
9/01/2004 10:44am,
> why doesn't BJJ like scarf hold? Just not enough options?
I guess so. You have the two armbars, you can switch to arm triangle choke (kata gatame)... anything else?

> or is it considered vulnerable to some BJJ move I don't know?
Yeah, it's called "taking the back".

Seriously, kuzure kesa gatame (where you underhook the far arm) seems okay, but with regular kesa (arm around neck), I see two problems: a) the other guy can keep you from turning back into regular side mount by blocking that arm, and b) the other guy can shrimp out, get a hook in with one of his legs, pop his head out - voila, back mount. This is a favorit move of mine, being tall and flexible.

Rock Mechanic
9/01/2004 10:50am,
Originally posted by WhiteShark
That's odd both of those are easily countered...

The leg over one is countered by keeping your head low, or stacking if he gose for it.

I know - but he does it to me*. I think I can make a scarf work well and it is a bit disappointing to be told I shouldn't be doing it *whine*.

Like I said none of the other guys get out of my scarf holds and after 10 mins of eating glove it can be quite satisfying to start cranking a neck or two

he does a couple more I cant remember - one is an odd leg lock

*I find it less painful to argue the details with him