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Dochter
8/09/2004 1:38pm,
In a report of the ongoing battle with "milita" forces in Basra under the control/command of cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, Sadr reportedly said:


"I will continue fighting," al-Sadr told reporters. "I will remain in Najaf city until the last drop of my blood has been spilled."

"Resistance will continue and increase day by day," he said. "Our demand is for the American occupation to get out of Iraq. We want an independent, democratic, free country."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040809/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_3

This really strikes me as ludicrous. As much as I think the American public and the American legislature were mislead as to the reasons the Bush administration pushed for war, this wasn't even a potential desire prior to the removal of Saddam.

While the nature of news is such that stories of support for the American presence aren't reported (I personally don't think this is strictly due to a bias, but rather what is deemed "newsworthy", aka sensational) I really wonder how comments like this are viewed in Iraq.

I also doubt there are that many people that really believe this schmuck really would advocate fair elections. Somehow, call me cynical, I'm betting that the only elections he'd want to see would be ones that put him in power.

Anyway, just thought I'd share this gem.

Ronin
8/09/2004 1:40pm,
That shithole is getting more and more shitty as time goes by.

WingChun Lawyer
8/09/2004 1:42pm,
Originally posted by Dochter
I also doubt there are that many people that really believe this schmuck really would advocate fair elections. Somehow, call me cynical, I'm betting that the only elections he'd want to see would be ones that put him in power.


You´ve got a point, of course. I guess he is just trying to manipulate the media and make the american continued presence in Iraq more hard to justify before the american public, that is all.

Ronin
8/09/2004 1:43pm,
I remember a while back, when i was still military, some guys were shooting the **** about this and that, and Vietnam and guerilla warfare become a topic, this older guy comes buy (SGT.) and stops, turns:
"only way to win a war in someone's back yard is to kill everyone".
And he walked away.

He was right.
You can't win these "wars".

punchingdummy
8/09/2004 1:44pm,
Iran.

Ronin
8/09/2004 1:45pm,
What about Iran?

Zendetta
8/09/2004 1:50pm,
Originally posted by ronin69
I remember a while back, when i was still military, some guys were shooting the **** about this and that, and Vietnam and guerilla warfare become a topic, this older guy comes buy (SGT.) and stops, turns:
"only way to win a war in someone's back yard is to kill everyone".
And he walked away.

He was right.
You can't win these "wars".


I cannot possibly agree with you more. I think that this totally obvious point is somehow totally overlooked by virtually everyone who supports the war in Iraq. Pragmatically speaking, you can't hope to impose democracy and human rights by force. It is (IMO) a terrible fallacy to think otherwise.

I recently posted that this war "will not end and probably can't be won." People freaked, but I think it is pretty clear.

punchingdummy
8/09/2004 1:58pm,
Who do you think is arming Sadr?

(His is a religious fight and not a nationalistic one)

Ronin
8/09/2004 1:59pm,
Oh, it will end, and no war is ever really "won".
If there is one thing arabs know how to do, it is make prolonged wars of attrition.

Dochter
8/09/2004 2:01pm,
Originally posted by punchingdummy
Who do you think is arming Sadr?

(His is a religious fight and nat a nationalistic one) There also is the ironic similarities of a brutal dicatator who religious fanatics are attempting to take the place of.

WingChun Lawyer
8/09/2004 2:08pm,
Originally posted by Dochter
There also is the ironic similarities of a brutal dicatator who religious fanatics are attempting to take the place of.

Just like happened in Afghanistan, but now the USA is on the other side. Anyone remembers Rambo?

Freddy
8/09/2004 2:13pm,
The reason Al-Sadr's troops are fighting was because the U.S. military broke the truce with an attempted assasination on Al-Sadr when they recently sent a plane to bomb him.
I dont know anyone remeber that on the news when they tried to kill him (I think last week).

punchingdummy
8/09/2004 2:13pm,
Originally posted by WingChun Lawyer
Just like happened in Afghanistan, but now the USA is on the other side. Anyone remembers Rambo?

Please explain....

Ronin
8/09/2004 2:18pm,
Perhaps the whole US- helps- muslims- to- fight- the- russians- so- they- leave-afganistan and now the US is wearing the "russian" shoe in Iraq.

Freddy
8/09/2004 2:19pm,
Originally posted by Zendetta


I recently posted that this war "will not end and probably can't be won." People freaked, but I think it is pretty clear.

You are right.
Look at Algeria and look at how many years France fought guerilla resistance before they were forced out of the country. Guerilla warfare is nasty. Alot of them lasting for decades. Even in the Congo they have been fighting since the 60's and only had brief periods of peace.

WingChun Lawyer
8/09/2004 2:21pm,
Originally posted by ronin69
Perhaps the whole US- helps- muslims- to- fight- the- russians- so- they- leave-afganistan and now the US is wearing the "russian" shoe in Iraq.

Yup. Except this time the USA did all the fighting themselves, AND ended up in the place of the bloody dictator who becomes the target of the religious fanatics.

USA-fights-bloody-dictator-who-fought-muslim-fanatics-and-ends-up-as-the-bloody-dictator-who-fights-muslim-fanatics.