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FukFu
12/27/2002 11:04pm,
Here is the scenario; you have just used a banking machine after dark when a lone male larger than you demands money from you. He may be armed you donít know and he may have friends in the bushes, again you donít know.

My question is what is your strategy for self defence?

To make it fun, letís leave out the running away and screaming for help stuff and only talk about fighting strategy.


<marquee>I'm an ex-street fighter and ex-con and I know a thing or two about fighting.</marquee>

Gezere
12/28/2002 3:00am,
Toss him the cash. Draw my Berreta then MUG him! If his friends decide to pop out then I cap him and proceed to the others, but I've found if you show willingness to shoot one person the others take a pause and decide whether they want to continue or not especially if they see you taking aim at them.

______
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!


"I love you Asia" - I Give BJJs Posted - December 25 2002 : 10:40:09

Mercurius
12/28/2002 6:04am,
This is all bullshit, as I (or anyone here who hasn't been in this kind of ****, i.e. everyone but the miliatary guys/people raised in tough neighborhoods) would probably (65% chance) freeze or have a panic attack in this situation, but here goes:

First, once he demands money, I'd try to find out if he was armed. Responding something like "What?" or "Pardon me?" (disarming tone, not antagonistic) would maybe draw a response like "I have a gun, gimme the money" or him revealing what he had (knife, gun, snickers bar, etc.)

From there, it'd depend on my position. Only reason for me to even think of attempting an escape is when I've already given over the money and he's not satisfied (sounds like he's going to kill or maim me anyway). In that case, you'd have to apply whatever disarm/escape was appropriate for the situation (use leverage/keep the gun away, slip out of the knife headlock if it's possible), and then run like Michael Green.

Fighting strategy, starting from right after the improbable Jackie Chan gun disarm, I'd either have the gun and be pointing it at him (maybe a couple warning shots just for fun) or be actively going for the gun. If the gun, say, fell off a railing or something, I'd take advantage of the guy's distration and hit him and run, or if I could pound his ass and get my money back.

If he had a knife (or any other weapon, including a gun), I'd try to get some control of his weapon hand, enough to prevent injury to myself, and do what damage I could to convince him that dropping the weapon was in his best interests.

Something to consider here is psychological warfare: When you're wrestling for a weapon/money/card, shouting **** like "Thank God, it's the police!" or "Stop! I have to bring this money to the church!" can work, and to prevent the robbery beforehand, don't act as if you're an easy mark: be confident, but non-confrontational, go at a reasonable pace, don't look like you're scared and in a hurry to get out of there.

Everything is geared at getting away if you want to survive. Even in countries like Japan and England with no right to bear arms, there are still gun robberies and murders. When you go to the machine, be wearing dark clothes that make you hard to track at night, take your car keys with you, and when you run, run in zigzags away from potential ambush spots (but simultaneously looking to round corners if possible) to avoid potential gunfire.



"God is dead." -Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead." -God

Edited by - Mercurius on December 28 2002 05:05:39

Benignsoul
12/28/2002 7:11am,
This is all bullshit, as I (or anyone here who hasn't been in this kind of ****, i.e. everyone but the miliatary guys/people raised in tough neighborhoods) would probably (65% chance) freeze or have a panic attack in this situation



First off its all about the training you go through. I stongly disagree with your statement that I qouted above. Check out www.senshido.com , one of the best examples of training for situations just like the one qouted above. To try and answer the question as honestly as possible "It depends", it depends on alot of factors such as: How do you feel in the moment, Whats the weather, what are you wearing, etc.... Not ducking the question, just trying to answer as realistically as possible. Personally when I am at the ATM I am always aware of what is going on around me and who is approaching, just a personal thing. However it really depends on what your attacker really wants, does he really want just your money, or will he escalate it to your life if you give over your cash. My personal feelings are if I am confronted by an attacker, armed or not, who is trying to mug me, attack me, rape me etc... and he is not wearing a mask, I will almost always take him out with extreme prejudice under the pretense that he will kill me after he robs me. For the simple fact that he is not wearing a mask so I can identify him later, no criminal, seasoned or not, wants to get caught.

Once you figure out what your attacker wants, than your response can be dictated by the threat. Not ducking the question, like I said, but there are too many variables involved to answer this question accurately. Also not getting down on anyone, however if your art does not approach your training with realistic scenario replication, with dialogue, rage and intent, than I suggest you find a more suitable art (if you want self defense, if you are looking to win trophies or collect belts thats cool too). Like a wise man once said "In the ring you win; In the streets you survive"

Kato
12/28/2002 7:53am,
Don't use a banking machine after dark in near large bushes...like...D'UH.....

SRyuFighter
12/28/2002 12:54pm,
I would probably knock him on his ass and run to a nearby public area. If they still followed I would deal with as best I could.

Bring out the windbreakers, I feel a storm coming on!

FukFu
12/28/2002 8:43pm,
Hello Benignsoul

I checked out the link (http://www.senshido.com/) that you posted. It looks like a very good introductory course for novices.


<marquee>I'm an ex-street fighter and ex-con and I know a thing or two about fighting.</marquee>

Benignsoul
12/29/2002 3:17am,
Hey FukFU

Sure you went to the same link I posted?? Senshido is probably THE best reality based system available today, and I guarantee it surpasses basically every dojo art out there as well as most of the schools that say they are "Geared towards the streets". Perhaps you should take a second look at that site, although it is geared towards every level of student, however if your insinuating that its for beginners than I have to disagree. I have trained in a variety of systems including Krav Maga as well as BJJ and I can honestly say that nothing even comes close to Senshido in terms of Realistic Street Self Defense. Take a second look and read what Richard Dimitri has to say, who knows, you might even learn something. :)

FukFu
12/29/2002 5:46am,
Hey Benignsoul

Yes I'm sure I went to the same link that you posted.

From what I read and saw in the photos, Senshido is less advanced than my personal system.

<marquee>I'm an ex-street fighter and ex-con and I know a thing or two about fighting.</marquee>

Benignsoul
12/29/2002 6:52am,
FukFu

Well I have a couple of questions:

1) What is your personal system, and how do you feel that Senshido is less advanced?
2) Where do you teach out of, because my personal feeling is that at the end of the day its not about whose system is better than whose, it is about survival. If you can show me a more effective way of defending myself from a violent confrontation, than I would like to know about it.
3) What systems have you trained in, and how many years experience have you taken to develop your "system".
4) If your system is much more advanced, why ask your original question on this forum? Wouldn't you already have the answers?

I see that your scrolling message says your an ex-con as well as an ex-streetfighter, which is all well and good. However I am of the mindset of "Don't tell me, show me". I don't mean this in a challenging way, however do you have a website, videos, a school I could drop by? Just wondering. Anyway, I don't think you should judge a book by its cover, perhaps you should read a bit more from the site, because I certainley feel that Senshido has all aspects of "street" covered, the mental as well as the physical.

J-kid
12/29/2002 8:29am,
I would be like what are you talking about. Then say you gotta be kidding me, Expecting no i would then deleiver a nice punch to the face and run like ****. if he follows lead him down a dark allie and beat him almost to death take his money and leave him for dead.

FukFu
12/29/2002 8:35am,
Benignsoul

Your couple of questions would take days to answer in full. Iíll make it brief.

I want to encourage you to pursue Senshido. Compared with whatís out there, Senshido looks good. I just donít think itís for me.

I donít teach anymore and I donít have a school or make videos and books. And I want to keep it that way.

My personal system has developed over the years (20+) from MA training and real fights. I donít consider my system complete yet. The martial arts that have contributed the most are, in no particular order, Judo, JJJ, BJJ, Boxing, and Muay Thai.

I think hypothetical questions are fun. There are no right answers and arguing about it is foolish. I have enjoyed reading everyoneís posts.

My answer;

Waste no time! Hit the guy with a 6 or 8 strike combination (really ring his bell), them clinch gaining the dominate position before he can recover. Then slam him hard into the pavement with a throw that leaves you on your feet.

The above plan is susceptible to change.


<marquee>I'm an ex-street fighter and ex-con and I know a thing or two about fighting.</marquee>

Benignsoul
12/29/2002 10:33am,
[quote]
Benignsoul

Your couple of questions would take days to answer in full. Iíll make it brief.

I want to encourage you to pursue Senshido. Compared with whatís out there, Senshido looks good. I just donít think itís for me. [quote]

Actually I'm quite interested to hear why you feel Senshido is a less "Advanced system", or what it is lacking. As I said, at the end of the day it is about survival, so if you feel there is something missing please take some time out to let me know what it is. If you feel that you don't want to eat up bandwith with a long response please feel free to email me at [email protected] .

[quote]
I donít teach anymore and I donít have a school or make videos and books. And I want to keep it that way.

My personal system has developed over the years (20+) from MA training and real fights. I donít consider my system complete yet. The martial arts that have contributed the most are, in no particular order, Judo, JJJ, BJJ, Boxing, and Muay Thai.
[quote]

So is your personal style of fighting what you refer to as "Your system". Reason I ask is that you had posted above "Senshido is less advanced than my personal system", however you don't teach, own a school, have videos etc... so I don't understand how you can have "A system". I mean I could call my personal flavor of fighting "Rob-Fu" but that doesn't necessarely mean I have a personal system that I developed, does it ? Just look at the whole "Ham-do" (or whatever it is) discussion that is going on right now. Anyone can claim that they have an unbeatable, super-secret system that they developed, but unless you can validate it, how are we to know if your lying or not. Not trying to start trouble, and not insinuating you are lying, just trying to understand.

[quote]
I think hypothetical questions are fun. There are no right answers and arguing about it is foolish.
[quote]

Not arguing about it. I personally feel that discussion is extremely advantageous to us all becoming a little wiser about situations being discussed. However most of the responses people are giving are purely physical, and I feel we are all overlooking the huge mental aspect of violent confrontations. FukFu, like I said, please let me know how you feel Senshido is lacking and how I may train more realistically in order to be better prepared for violent situations that may arise. Thanx.

Gezere
12/29/2002 11:50am,
>Senshido is probably THE best reality based system available today, and I guarantee it surpasses basically every dojo art out there as well as most of the schools that say they are "Geared towards the streets


I swear I've heard this before.................

______
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!


"I love you Asia" - I Give BJJs Posted - December 25 2002 : 10:40:09

SamHarber
12/29/2002 12:49pm,
I've just had a look at the Senshido site.
Awooga.. Awooga... Warning, you have 3 minutes to get to minimum safe distance!
No offense or anything, but... well...

The Wastrel
12/29/2002 1:00pm,
Yes Asia you have heard it before. Allow me to demonstrate with the Senshido commandments...

7. A Street Soldier speaks the words he truly feels.

9. A Street Soldier does it his way, all the way

These are two of the tenets of Mai-Wey-Do as practiced by Grandmaster Frank Sinatra. Then there are these.

11. A Street Soldier has a strong sense of pride and humility.

Clearly they have mastered "qi" to a level that they can defy paradox.

19. A Street Soldier does not think himself superior or inferior to others.

Isn't this part of the creed for the fraternity Sigma Alpha Epsilon? Granted, theirs is somewhat more elegantly phrased.

3. A Street Soldier lives with the warrior mind set.

I tried this once, but it led to all sorts of problems. The Warrior Mind Set never cleaned up after himself and was constantly leaving the toilet seat up.




**The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**