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Rakim
12/23/2002 4:22am,
I'm new to this forum but I belong to many others. It seems that everybody thinks that so and so style or martial art is better then this one! That is the biggest heap of BS that I have seen. Yeah your martial arts will help you develop but if you don't have it to begin with I say it isn't going to happen. I've studied martial arts for more then 26 years now for many reasons. I have to say that if a BJJ or MMA or wing chun guy doesn't have what it takes then the Wushu or even Tae bo guy that does will kick his ass! LOL! A good example of that would be Tank Abbot just think of how much better he would be if he had a year or two of Tae bo? I don't think he would have ran out of gas so quickly.

SLJ
12/23/2002 4:29am,
Of course the individual artist is very important, but surley he would be even better if he were using the most effective techniques.

I find it quite simple to understand.

----------------------------------------------------------
”He (Master Bristol) was like a slippery fish. There was no way I could hold on to him.” -- Tomas Shurrman, Judo Expert

warmonx
12/23/2002 4:30am,
most people think tank was an untrained fighter but that is not true. tank wrestled for years ans was given a scholership for it before a car wreck.tank also boxed and can bench over 600 pounds.

Rakim
12/23/2002 5:08am,
No I'm not saying that learning good techniques and learning principles and concepts will not help. But I'm saying that the individual plays a bigger part in the fighters performance then what style or art that he does. If you have a well rounded system or style and you are a good fighter with solid training methods. You can be quite effective. I use Tank as a example becuase he did not claim a style. He just used his boxing and wrestling experience along with his strength and killer instinct to get really far in the full contact areana. The funny thing is that if he had a few months training with McDojo king pin Silly Blanks and his Tae Bo he could have increased his sucess record. It just goes to show you that each martial art has it's place. If you want to enjoy sports TKD and judo will give you this. If you are already a good fighter they will help you there also. BJJ is good for one on one fighting in a set enviorment and the training can help you in the sport areana as well. my point is that if you have a good instructor that is honest with himself and you about what his/her art does best you will not have any problem applying it to your self defence,fighting, sport, health and fitness or demostrations. But it still boils down to the idividual in the end.

Hiji kime
12/23/2002 5:19am,
Rakim: well put. couldn't have said it better :)

Gezere
12/23/2002 5:37am,
Rakim,

You mean it is the PERSON more so than the ART!?!?! Blasphemy!!!
That would imply that techinques don't apply themselves. WHAT? This is OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

Rakim
12/23/2002 6:03am,
I just think it is funny to see some people come into my school and buy all of the T-shirts,Gym bags,pads,and equipment. Then they take a few classes but absolutly refuse to go to application classes where we round-robin through out the class applying this weeks lesson plan. Then end the class with a submission or fighting time limit. (of course with some one of simular size and skill) These people actually get upset with us for not recomending them for promotion testing!! I always say how do we know you can apply what you know? LOL! no one wants to pay the physical cost these days. They always say well I've been here for this long!! I always say it does not matter if you are here for 60 years. If you do not want to apply it you are wasting both of our time!

warmonx
12/23/2002 6:23am,
why would they not want to spar? people say mcdojo is the school but sometimes the student is a ronald.

Kempocos
12/23/2002 8:29am,
Firts off TAE BO IS AEROBICS AND HAS NEVER BEEN BILLED AS A MARTIAL ART, HE BILLS IT AS A JANE FONDA TYPE VIDEO. Second on the STREET I would have to say Billy Blamks would kick the **** out all you loud mouths, 7 time full contact champion that is what you guys say proven in the ring. last thing, it is always the person and not the style when it is fight time.
This makes thread number 678 cover this topic.

sorry just cranky this morning


EAT SLEEP TRAIN

Miguksaram
12/23/2002 11:23am,
First of all, I believe Billy Blanks was a full contact POINT fighter. On this forum, that title doesn't hold a lot of water with most folks. Another thing is the point was made saying that if Tank Abbot would have taken some TAE BO his stamina would have increased and he would have been a better fighter. The individual fighter is what counts theme is exactly the point of this thread.

Now, go have some eggnog with some brandy and relax...It's the holidays. :)

Jeremy M. Talbott
http://www.homestead.com/koreanma/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/jns1994/MSA.html

sarkeizen
12/23/2002 11:43am,
I'm new to this forum but I belong to many others. It seems that everybody thinks that so and so style or martial art is better then this one! That is the biggest heap of BS that I have seen.


Wow...it's like watching like Jamoke II son (bride?)-of-Jamoke.

Anyway...why is it necessarily BS to discuss which techniques are good/better/best? Is it really so small a part of the equation? For example suppose I invent a martal art called FoolDo. Which has the most inefficent techniques possible and teach it to someone who has "what it takes". Will they still prevale over someone who has trained soundly (ceterus paribus of course!).

If so then I announce the Grand Opening of my own McDojo of FoolDo. All who have "what it takes" may apply knowing it will not make them much worse fighters than they already are...and it will make me much, much more wealthy. :)



Yeah your martial arts will help you develop but if you don't have it to begin with I say it isn't going to happen.


So what exactly do you mean by "it"? Normal english parsing rules would refer the demonstrative pronoun to the subject of the sentence. In this case "martial arts". Which would result in your sentence being rendered "...martial arts will help you develop but if you don't have martial arts to begin with I say it (martial arts again?) isn't going to happen." Which of course doesn't make any sense.

So I'm guess you're refering to some other "it". "Killer instinct" perhaps?

Anyway I doubt anyone on this board thinks you can have technique without ability (physical/mental/metaphysical). However unless you're talking about things like weight training or other things that are in your control. Then I don't see the cause for complaint. After all these are discussion boards and we might as well discuss the things we can control as opposed to some ineffable "what it takes". What possible good would that be? Since it's...well...ineffable.

SRyuFighter
12/23/2002 11:45am,
I agree it comes down to the person. Martial Arts can just greatly help you to be a better one.

Bring out the windbreakers, I feel a storm coming on!

SRyuFighter
12/23/2002 11:46am,
I aqree it is the person. Martial Arts will just help you be a better one.

Bring out the windbreakers, I feel a storm coming on!

KJM
12/23/2002 12:03pm,
MA, is great for many things like balance coordination & muscle endurance it all has a their cardio benefits.That's the tip of the ice berg when it come to reality fighting which most of the dojo's don't address. but all in all overall development & training the physical part is the hardest part of MA. Learning to fight in real life confrontation doesn't take very long learn . Its if you can performed the movements with kinetic force and proper balance.

sarkeizen
12/23/2002 12:46pm,
MA, is great for many things like balance coordination & muscle endurance it all has a their cardio benefits.That's the tip of the ice berg when it come to reality fighting which most of the dojo's don't address.


Ok I agree that balance and coordination and endurance ( and strength too) are important things when fighting but what is the 80% that most schools aren't teaching?



but all in all overall development & training the physical part is the hardest part of MA. Learning to fight in real life confrontation doesn't take very long learn


Are you saying you can learn to fight more effectively by just fighting in real life?



Its if you can performed the movements with kinetic force and proper balance.


So is training in "balance" and "force" the things you feel are missing from most dojos..or is that something again. I'll assume that "kinetic force" isn't any different from just plain ol' force.

Fisting Kittens
12/23/2002 12:56pm,
clarification of the Billy Blanks issue. The vast majority of his championships are not recorded anywhere. Several of his so called world championships were little more than regional tournaments with big names. A couple of years ago Bill Wallace did an article on Tae Bo in BB magazine and said that a few years before Bliily Blanks was claiming he was a four time world champion and he hasn't competed at all between then and now. Wallace said point blank that even if the first 4 are somewhat legit (as in actual tournemnets regardless of how small or prestigious) the other 3 are bold faced lies. And yes he was a point fighter.