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Crafty Dog
12/20/2018 12:22pm,
https://amp-reporternews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.reporternews.com/amp/1419910002?usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D&fbclid=IwAR10nnQXeDYo9A8_G3Bl4a42CnYL9qpCwjyclc67O aGgEe93xBhBkhevjAM&amp_js_v=0.1#aoh=15452535468307&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reporternews.com%2Fstor y%2Fnews%2Fcrime%2F2018%2F09%2F25%2Ffather-son-alley-shooting-over-trash-mattress-first-meeting-aaron-howard-john-miller-michael-miller%2F1419910002%2F

Dr. Gonzo
12/20/2018 12:33pm,
https://amp-reporternews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.reporternews.com/amp/1419910002?usqp=mq331AQECAFYAQ%3D%3D&fbclid=IwAR10nnQXeDYo9A8_G3Bl4a42CnYL9qpCwjyclc67O aGgEe93xBhBkhevjAM&amp_js_v=0.1#aoh=15452535468307&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reporternews.com%2Fstor y%2Fnews%2Fcrime%2F2018%2F09%2F25%2Ffather-son-alley-shooting-over-trash-mattress-first-meeting-aaron-howard-john-miller-michael-miller%2F1419910002%2F

People's denial of the own certain death, especially given certain stimuli, never ceases to amaze me.

Loud talk and physical prowess does nothing to protect you, when two firearms, spaced apart, are already in a ready position, with the shooters vectoring themselves at you, with fingers on the triggers.

Equally amazing are when people stand in front of cars, threatening the drivers, or across busy highways.

ghost55
12/20/2018 1:03pm,
Dumpster defender is a hero dammit.

BackFistMonkey
12/20/2018 1:05pm,
Here is a link that won't track you and includes the video.
amp? Really?

smh

https://www.reporternews.com/story/news/crime/2018/09/25/father-son-alley-shooting-over-trash-mattress-first-meeting-aaron-howard-john-miller-michael-miller/1419910002/

ghost55
12/20/2018 1:08pm,
Doubt it.

Sam Browning
12/20/2018 1:12pm,
more like AN hero.

Since it happened in Texas I won't comment on the legal outcome that will happen there. In Connecticut having someone threaten to kill you, who is unarmed, who is not trying to put their hands on you, (and the guy was larger) will not successfully support the affirmative defense of self defense. I can change the facts, like a woman, being threatened, by a stalker, who had previously hurt her which would possibly allow such a defense. Two guys who had guns, would not be able to succeed with this claim in my state. This will be an interesting trial.

All over a friggen mattress.

Sam Browning
12/20/2018 1:20pm,
Mac Mcyoung once wrote of an incident in New York City, (he gave the victims name) where an actress being mugged said in effect "what are you going to do, shoot us". (in an aggressive tone) and got shot. The victim here was stupid enough to say "shoot me". Regardless of what legally went down, this is very stupid thing to say to a person who has a gun, or is holding a gun on you.

submessenger
12/20/2018 1:42pm,
TFA says dude had a bat. Video doesn't show that, but I suppose conceivable.

Also, most Texans don't look like those greasy blobs of crap.

There was ample opportunity to de-escalate. So, stand your ground or no, I think the shooters were in the wrong. Vic was definitely menacing, but my opinion is he wouldn't have chased them if they just walked away, as he asked them to on video.

(edit: moar)

When the first shots were fired, Aaron had a bat in his hand and was approximately seven feet from John Miller, who was the closest to him. When Michael Miller discharged his shotgun and John Miller fired the final two rounds from his pistol, Aaron Howard was unarmed. Both the Millers admitted to shooting Howard

https://www.reporternews.com/story/news/crime/2018/09/21/father-and-son-john-miller-michael-miller-arron-howard-viral-video-shooting-man-alley-trash/1383106002/

So, pistol, shotgun, pistol, pistol are the four shots heard. Shot one, Howard had a bat, is the way that reads, to me. I suppose justifiable. I still think this could have been avoided. I'm also sure that I'm no longer able to be on this jury, if I ever was.

Crafty Dog
12/20/2018 2:07pm,
Is that a bat we see go flying at the pistol man in the final seconds?

submessenger
12/20/2018 2:09pm,
Is that a bat we see go flying at the pistol man in the final seconds?

Great catch, I missed that on the first three watches. You are correct.

(edit)
You can see old fat guy taking cover from the incoming bat; what seems to be strange is that Howard was already seen turning away, so the bat probably came from the alleged fifth participant.

Diesel_tke
12/20/2018 2:13pm,
I believe the shooters were wrong in this one. From my perspective, he wasn't advancing. They will argue that they felt threatened. However, they weren't acting threatened. I think they were being antagonistic and chose to fire just because they could. No other reason. The dude with the bat should have went home, though. All avoidable.

submessenger
12/20/2018 2:18pm,
Lessons learned:

don't bring a bat to a gun fight
don't throw your bat away
if you're the guy(s) with the gun(s), you should probably shoot out the video camera(s) first

hungryjoe
12/20/2018 2:31pm,
All around bad deal. Gene pool fail.

Crafty Dog
12/20/2018 6:04pm,
Someone whom I regard as reliable tells me he had access to the town's police database and the deceased had been in and out of jail various times.

ghost55
12/20/2018 6:07pm,
Someone whom I regard as reliable tells me he had access to the town's police database and the deceased had been in and out of jail various times.

The deceased was engaging in tweaker bullshit. Got what he deserved.

submessenger
12/20/2018 6:50pm,
The deceased was engaging in tweaker bullshit. Got what he deserved.

The deceased was posturing in response to an excessive show of force, which resulted from the aggressors removing item(s) from the trash receptacle and placing it in the decedent's yard. Yes, he was acting like he might have had a fair amount of amping, but we also have this phenomenon known as "Irish temper," which doesn't require any substance (ab)use. It is a mistake to cast him as a druggy in this situation, unless you have evidence to the contrary.

That he was previously incarcerated adds color to the situation, but may also aid in an improper conclusion. Does he not retain every right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as the two "gentlemen," who shot him?

The situation seems to have escalated from a simple argument, where the shooters went back to their homes and returned armed, and the decedent (or his proxy) also returned to their home, and returned armed.

So, both parties were already in the wrong, from a stand-your-ground perspective. For this reason, alone, the shooters are guilty. They retreated. The law is stand your ground, not recover your ground after retreat.