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BFGalbraith
3/29/2017 1:05am,
Most of the muscles in that area (tibialis ant. being the biggest) do indeed dorsiflex the ankle.


Interesting exception is peroneus longus which assists in plantarflexion and is also where the large peroneal nerve is running.

https://academic.amc.edu/martino/grossanatomy/site/NURSES/TUTORIALS/Lower%20Limb/Pictures/latlegnerves.jpg


I'm not sure if that favors a technique.

It also bears noting that you can also tighten muscles at full length, so toes down doesn't mean "soft" tibialis ant.
A shortened muscle is fatter too.
More questions than answers.


You can see their relationship here.
The meaty part of the gastrocnemius and soleus are deeper than peroneus laterally, and also plantarflex.
https://bananarunning.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/peroneus-longus.jpg?w=400&h=320

OK, now I have to ask. Has anyone heard of a low round kick while pulling the toes up, instead of pointing the toes down (away from the bag)?

ChengPengFi I recall a CLF low sweep connecting with the the shin in certain CLF forms, but the toes are not pointed away from the knee, they are pulled towards the knee... for an example of this see 48 seconds of the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfzuwZku6Eg&list=PLE2DB3EB41480906D

ChenPengFi
3/29/2017 1:39pm,
Sweeping a shin is less than ideal.
There are a lot of hooking movements but I've never seen a sweep directly to the shin taught.

BKR
3/29/2017 2:39pm,
Sweeping a shin is less than ideal.
There are a lot of hooking movements but I've never seen a sweep directly to the shin taught.

Harai Tsurikomi Ashi hits lower shin. Definitely a foot sweep. Not Shin to Shin though if that's what you mean.

WFMurphyPhD
3/29/2017 2:53pm,
Harai Tsurikomi Ashi hits lower shin. Definitely a foot sweep. Not Shin to Shin though if that's what you mean.

Shin contact in that case is kind of more like a rudder though isn't it?

The one guy I know that hits that throw rather savagely really drives his belly button into it,

and I almost think that he is making an entire displacing plane of his leg against uke's leg that is being swept back, and then he rotates people over the resulting wedge while they are forced on to one leg.

If he does it to his lapel grip side even other Judo black belts find it hard not to try and post out on the free hand on the way down.

I'm always more nervous than he is when he demonstrates that throw or hits that throw on my mats on his lapel grip side.

ChenPengFi
3/29/2017 3:01pm,
Not Shin to Shin though if that's what you mean.


That's what I was visualizing.
There's a weird shin to shin sort of trip I learned in KF but it's hard to set up.

Raycetpfl
3/29/2017 3:06pm,
I don't think he is trying to block the shin with his knee cap, I think he is using the high part of his shin, though yes, compared to other types of blocking leg kicks, he is relatively blocking with the front/lowest part of what is popularly described as part of the knee:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOn7WxHjbXI

See also 2 minutes 40 seconds of the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KeOR-VuUrg

Yeah, definitely not the knee cap,that would hurt. It's the highest point of the shin lowest of the knee if you will.

WFMurphyPhD
3/29/2017 3:12pm,
Yeah, definitely not the knee cap,that would hurt. It's the highest point of the shin lowest of the knee if you will.

Several of the shooto leagues required shin pads because this (broken leg after countered thai kick) is a surprisingly high occurrence.

Maybe it's because they learn the technique without going through all the bone conditioning the Thai Boxing schools who actually specialize in Thai Boxing do.

Maybe it's because the counter technique is aggressively taught.

Or, maybe they made everybody wear shin pads for the same reason somebody came with the idea to have young wrestlers wear singlets, just to make the athlete feel like they look goofy in front of a big crowd....

Breaking one's foot by hitting the tip of the elbow was another common situation.

Guy tries to continue fighting while a purple softball sized lump presents on the top of the broken foot..."I'm fine, I'm fine" while everybody else looking at it is swallowing back a little throw up.

Bneterasedmynam
3/30/2017 12:17pm,
Yeah, definitely not the knee cap,that would hurt. It's the highest point of the shin lowest of the knee if you will.

It seems like the safest spot for the defender to check. I always thought though that Weidman kind of used it as as partial strike though instead of just a check. Maybe I saw it wrong in the vid.

BKR
3/30/2017 2:04pm,
Shin contact in that case is kind of more like a rudder though isn't it?

The one guy I know that hits that throw rather savagely really drives his belly button into it,

and I almost think that he is making an entire displacing plane of his leg against uke's leg that is being swept back, and then he rotates people over the resulting wedge while they are forced on to one leg.

If he does it to his lapel grip side even other Judo black belts find it hard not to try and post out on the free hand on the way down.

I'm always more nervous than he is when he demonstrates that throw or hits that throw on my mats on his lapel grip side.

Right, it's not supposed to be a strike with the shin to the other shin. Primary contact would be the sole of the foot.

You can catch it different ways with more or less leg to leg contact. Your friend sounds like he knows what he is doing, especially the belly-button part. All foot sweeps really work that way, from your center (like everything else in life, eh?).

Putting the hand down is a standard escape, but not the safest thing in the world to do, for sure.

I love the throw, and used to be a lot better at it than I am now. It grades into Okuri Ashi Barai depending on the angle you hit and the final throwing action.

BKR
3/30/2017 2:06pm,
That's what I was visualizing.
There's a weird shin to shin sort of trip I learned in KF but it's hard to set up.

Yeah, I can imagine how you could go shin-shin to trip. Kinda like Sasae Tsurikomi Ashi, maybe.

Shin to shin with much force would hurt like a MF, both ways.

Of course, if tori is wearing boots...

Aka-Tora
3/30/2017 6:19pm,
It seems like the safest spot for the defender to check. I always thought though that Weidman kind of used it as as partial strike though instead of just a check. Maybe I saw it wrong in the vid.

There are a few defences to a low kick. Checking, stance switching, countering/intercepting with a teep/side kick/punch etc. are but a few. While it Kent the same as what Weidmam did, a partial strike, i.e. spiking the kick with your knee, is a legit defense too. Essentially place the flat of of your lead foot on the side of your rear knee (the left side facing inwards in orthodox obviously). It's a good way to discourage leg kicks but it's not guaranteed to cause much damage and can leave you vulnerable. Also a bit of a dick move in sparring.

big maclol
4/14/2017 4:57pm,
Toes up - more resistance but you might get kicked in the toes (which hasn't happened to me yet, timing the kick and adjusting the amount of which you raise your leg)

Toes down - less resistance and safe toes

Liger
5/21/2017 8:39am,
Weight transition might feel the same, though a block of a strong kick can offset and delay footing and movement for a sec, hence aggression being a friend. Pointed and non the recovery can feel the same, hard blocking technique says toes aimed forward for counter kicking and tension of the block.


Are you doing a block that is like outer blocking knee leading where contact with kicking leg is side of calf or more front and side of shin?


Hooking leg under then over theirs and two fisting their angle of their kicking leg to your hip to bow and arrow lean into a leg lock take down = real and trippy to do at and approaching full speed. Kung fu and karate grappling....

BackFistMonkey
5/21/2017 10:25am,
Hooking leg under then over theirs and two fisting their angle of their kicking leg to your hip to bow and arrow lean into a leg lock take down = real and trippy to do at and approaching full speed. Kung fu and karate grappling....

I have no idea what you are talking about.
Please provide video.
It sounds interesting and as this is the Advanced Striking forum I am going to assume you are not trolling have read the rules.

Omega Supreme
5/21/2017 11:37am,
The muscle on the lateral side of the Shin tense when you flex your foot "up", providing more protection for the shin, so I vote "toes up". The foot shouldn't be a target in either case. IMO the foot position isn't nearly as important as the relative body positions and angles of everything else.


^^^^^This.

Although I have targeted people's foot if I catch them pointing their toe downward.

Omega Supreme
5/21/2017 11:43am,
To weidman is to not block with the shin so much as the lower knee portion of the leg.

That is the shin.