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itwasntme
2/27/2017 6:24pm,
That is an expensive weekend, my buy Monkey a Mossburg fund has like $6.89 in it.

i'm wishing i had built an 870. i love the mossburg, but after seeing how easy the shell elevator can come unseated and jam the action i wish i had an older 870 or newer police or wingmaster (with a little customization). or a wilson job. i wouldn't complain about one of those either.

but unless you can find the parts to build your own 870 (which you could potentially do for as little as the 500 or 590a1), the mossberg is better for the money imo. i just don't have anyone else to bitch to about not having done my research first.

edit: oh, and try gofundme

Cassius
2/27/2017 6:42pm,
i'm wishing i had built an 870. i love the mossburg, but after seeing how easy the shell elevator can come unseated and jam the action i wish i had an older 870 or newer police or wingmaster (with a little customization). or a wilson job. i wouldn't complain about one of those either.

but unless you can find the parts to build your own 870 (which you could potentially do for as little as the 500 or 590a1), the mossberg is better for the money imo. i just don't have anyone else to bitch to about not having done my research first.

edit: oh, and try gofundmeI wasn't all that happy with my Remington 870 Express (purchased new circa 2010 for maybe $200), so I did some work to it recently.

I replaced the furniture with Magpul's SGA stock and MOE forend. I replaced the entire FCG with the steel police version, which was on sale at Brownells awhile back. I am probably going to add a handstop to improve my grip on the MOE forend (it is less grippy than I would prefer), and eventually a sling. Other than that, I spent a few hours watching TV and racking it to smooth the action out. Definitely was worth the time and money investment.

itwasntme
2/27/2017 7:08pm,
I wasn't all that happy with my Remington 870 Express (purchased new circa 2010 for maybe $200), so I did some work to it recently.

I replaced the furniture with Magpul's SGA stock and MOE forend. I replaced the entire FCG with the steel police version, which was on sale at Brownells awhile back. I am probably going to add a handstop to improve my grip on the MOE forend (it is less grippy than I would prefer), and eventually a sling. Other than that, I spent a few hours watching TV and racking it to smooth the action out. Definitely was worth the time and money investment.

if i had been patient, i might had found a deal about like that. not sure exactly which model express you got. i picked mine up at a pawn shop for $600 with ghost rings and magpul furniture. i was particular about getting one with the picatinny rail so i can go with either rifle sights or ghost rings, but when i make my final decision they'll be tritium. a sling and metal fcg are probably in it's future as well.

it had been advertised to the shop as never been fired. obviously that wasn't true, i mean, who buys magpul furniture for a gun they aren't going to at least try out. but it looks like that's all they did. i took it home, cleaned and oiled it, and about 30% of what came of was dirt and dust and there was very minimal wear in the receiver/shell elevator. the action hung up a couple of times when i first took it out. took it home, lubed the action arms and racked it a bit, and only had one more slight jam. i was going slower that time since i was watching for it, and i believe that one was me not being deliberate enough with my rack.

overall, i'm happy as hell with it. 75 to 100 shells so far, for me anyway. that's why i was recommending monkey build one instead of going for the mossberg, because i bet he wants the 590a1. only thing he'd be lacking was the mil-spec barrel, but he'd be trading it for a more 'rugged' shotgun. on the other end, the mossberg has had a smooth action the entire time. essentially don't ever drop it or even jerk it hard the wrong way.

itwasntme
2/27/2017 7:27pm,
i'm a little gone and tired right now, so i'll condense my findings on the 870 and others can voice their opinions/experience:

older models tend to have smoother actions and this should run true for all models (espress, wingmaster, police). i've heard this can go about a decade back. i've got a buddy with one and he has done nothing but praise it; he's had it about two decades.

newer 870s tend to have clunkier actions out of the box; the wingmaster and police models are supposedly held to higher production quality standards. the police models already have the steel fcg. if you build a shotgun and find a wingmaster, you're probably looking at additional money for a shorter barrel and fcg since those are hunting rifles.

out of the box, my mossberg has had one hell of a smooth action, but that shell elevator makes me a bit curious.

Cassius
2/27/2017 7:37pm,
My friend has a 30ish year old Mossberg 5xx (not sure which one) marine edition. It has the barrel shroud and is very shiny, though less so from years of use. It should be ugly, but I love it. The action is really slick.

Compared to that my Remington 870 is pretty mediocre, but after 7 years of off and on use and the aforementioned recent elbow grease, it is coming along nicely. It is solidly built and doesn't malfunction, so it'll get there eventually.

itwasntme
2/27/2017 8:02pm,
My friend has a 30ish year old Mossberg 5xx (not sure which one) marine edition. It has the barrel shroud and is very shiny, though less so from years of use. It should be ugly, but I love it. The action is really slick.

Compared to that my Remington 870 is pretty mediocre, but after 7 years of off and on use and the aforementioned recent elbow grease, it is coming along nicely. It is solidly built and doesn't malfunction, so it'll get there eventually.

for the record, the 870 is the one that's going to be generally put up until i can see the action at work a little more. i've just seen a night and day difference in such a short time period since i did the same with mine.

Raycetpfl
2/27/2017 9:54pm,
Whoops I just bought a Finnish M39. This has been an expensive weekend.

I have a Russian hex receiver Mosin Nagant that shoots like a laser. I absolutely love it. Yours is likely of even higher quality.

GrouchyOldMan
3/01/2017 7:25am,
i'm a little gone and tired right now, so i'll condense my findings on the 870 and others can voice their opinions/experience:

older models tend to have smoother actions and this should run true for all models (espress, wingmaster, police). i've heard this can go about a decade back. i've got a buddy with one and he has done nothing but praise it; he's had it about two decades.

newer 870s tend to have clunkier actions out of the box; the wingmaster and police models are supposedly held to higher production quality standards. the police models already have the steel fcg. if you build a shotgun and find a wingmaster, you're probably looking at additional money for a shorter barrel and fcg since those are hunting rifles.

out of the box, my mossberg has had one hell of a smooth action, but that shell elevator makes me a bit curious.

This tends to be the conventional wisdom. I don't believe REM uses different steel, but the bluing on the 870 Wingmaster is definitely a much nicer finish than the matte blue on Express. Overall fit and finish on the Express has always been less than ideal, but generally adequate (imho).

The general grumblings about the quality seem to coincide with the acquisition of Big Green by Cerberus Holdings. Cerberus, like any other large enterprise, is reported to have focused on maximizing profit at the expense of parts and quality control.

I haven't seen any raw data in the way of warranty claims or verified product failures to quantify that, but the "finger in the wind" analysis was that after Cerberus took over, there were a whole lot more complaints about nib guns than in times past. This also seemed consistent across Remington's established platforms, and extended to the Model 700 as well as the 870.

The designs are solid, but it seemed a lot more lemons were making it out the door of the manufacturer than had previously been the case.

BKR
3/01/2017 12:21pm,
My boys both have Mossberg 500 20 ga. (one I bought used is a 500c, was in pretty much unfired condition), the other I bought new and is their youth model.

The actions are model 500, with other stuff scaled down.

They simply work, firing 2 3/4" and 3" shells with no problems. They have smoothed out with use, but were not really rough at all, including the NIB one I got for my younger son.

I will say you need to work the action vigorously when shooting 3" duck/goose/turkey loads, but these things plain work. Have not had to work on the lifter/ejector etc, and I looked at quite a few things online yesterday regarding all the problems and do-it-yourself fixes.

We take out the dowels when shooting ground-squirrels (unplug), and the action gets pretty fast and furious, with the boys side by side walking through the alfalfa field with me behind them, emptying the magazines, combat loading, and sliding new shells into the magazine when they get a chance.

We will throw out one of these too, and try to keep them moving.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Mp3CSrvFL._UX1500_.jpg

Or this:

http://suffolksports.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/DOBSD3-400x400.jpg

Ming Loyalist
3/01/2017 12:45pm,
This tends to be the conventional wisdom. I don't believe REM uses different steel, but the bluing on the 870 Wingmaster is definitely a much nicer finish than the matte blue on Express. Overall fit and finish on the Express has always been less than ideal, but generally adequate (imho).

The general grumblings about the quality seem to coincide with the acquisition of Big Green by Cerberus Holdings. Cerberus, like any other large enterprise, is reported to have focused on maximizing profit at the expense of parts and quality control.

I haven't seen any raw data in the way of warranty claims or verified product failures to quantify that, but the "finger in the wind" analysis was that after Cerberus took over, there were a whole lot more complaints about nib guns than in times past. This also seemed consistent across Remington's established platforms, and extended to the Model 700 as well as the 870.

The designs are solid, but it seemed a lot more lemons were making it out the door of the manufacturer than had previously been the case.

it was enough to get me to find a used pre-freedom group one on gunbroker. haven't been able to put it through its paces yet, other than one round of sporting clays with the bird barrel, but i signed up for another tactical shotgun class soon so i hope to then.

Cassius
3/09/2017 7:51pm,
Stopped by a random gun store today on the way home from work and found a nice Schmidt-Rubin Model 1911 long rifle. All matching serial numbers and the bore looked great. Exterior is worn but looks to have also been well cared for. Bakelite bolt knob is chipped but that is easy to replace. Lots of interesting markings, including a P which apparently signifies the owner chose to keep the weapon upon retiring. Came with a 1911 Bayonet in great shape as well. Got it for about $300, which seems like a good price in the current market. Found 580 rounds of GP11 for cheap as well, so I will definitely make time to shoot this guy very soon. My M39 should be here soon, so I am looking forward to doing a head to head shoot off between two of the most accurate service rifles in history. Wish I had some D166 for the M39.

So now I own something chambered in 7.5x55 Swiss.

GrouchyOldMan
3/09/2017 9:57pm,
Sounds like a good find.

This is precisely the reason I avoid unplanned stops at gun shops.

Cassius
3/09/2017 11:47pm,
Sounds like a good find.

This is precisely the reason I avoid unplanned stops at gun shops.I cleaned it up a bit with CLP, a chamois, and a boresnake, and it's in better shape than I thought. I'm pretty sure I could turn around and sell this at a good profit.

FWIW I passed on multiple pristine garands, a bunch of 8mm Mauser rifles, a straight bolt handle Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55, an Enfield, and a Lee Navy. Thankfully no old lever guns, which I would likely be unable to resist. I have been looking around for a K31, but this is even better for my purposes aka smashing steel plates.

Ming Loyalist
3/10/2017 11:19am,
I cleaned it up a bit with CLP, a chamois, and a boresnake, and it's in better shape than I thought. I'm pretty sure I could turn around and sell this at a good profit.

sort of a derail but WTF is up with people who sell used guns without even taking the time to *clean* them? any time i sell *anything* used, i take the time to clean it up properly, it's a tiny investment of time and some supplies, and it always results in a more positive impression of the item from the buyer.

i bought my remington 870 used, and i couldn't believe how grungy it was when i removed the trigger group to give it a proper cleaning. i guess in that guy's defense, he cleaned all the *visible* parts before selling it.

Devil
3/10/2017 11:24am,
sort of a derail but WTF is up with people who sell used guns without even taking the time to *clean* them? any time i sell *anything* used, i take the time to clean it up properly, it's a tiny investment of time and some supplies, and it always results in a more positive impression of the item from the buyer.

i bought my remington 870 used, and i couldn't believe how grungy it was when i removed the trigger group to give it a proper cleaning. i guess in that guy's defense, he cleaned all the *visible* parts before selling it.

Most people don't know how to disassemble their long guns. A lot of times they don't even know how to field strip their pistols, but they're even less knowledgeable about long guns. He probably had never removed the trigger group because he didn't know how.

BKR
3/10/2017 11:38am,
sort of a derail but WTF is up with people who sell used guns without even taking the time to *clean* them? any time i sell *anything* used, i take the time to clean it up properly, it's a tiny investment of time and some supplies, and it always results in a more positive impression of the item from the buyer.

i bought my remington 870 used, and i couldn't believe how grungy it was when i removed the trigger group to give it a proper cleaning. i guess in that guy's defense, he cleaned all the *visible* parts before selling it.

Yeah, at our local pawn and gun shop I see the same thing at times. Clean on the outside, and they don't' even run a bore snake down the bore, apparently. There was one .35 Rem. Marlin I was looking at seriously, and the bore was so dirty it looked like a gopher hole. I told the owner (who I know and talk to all the time) he ought to clean the thing if he wanted to sell it anytime soon.

Back on topic, I have not seen a pristine Garand in a long time anywhere around here. I should get out more, LOL!