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View Full Version : Ippon Seoi Nage demo by BJJ blue belts.



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DCS
12/19/2016 5:12am,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tecEItiGaow


The most efficient form of throwing is known as "Soft Judo."
When used correctly, one becomes like an empty jacket in the hands of an opponent. The only time an opponent feels pressure is when he is thrown. The Soft Judo practitioner is calm and relaxed--yet alert--moving smoothly across the mat.

Someone could tell them Seoi is Te waza, not Koshi waza.

In English: They are doing the unbalancing wrong and in the most inefficient way possible.

ghost55
12/19/2016 5:40am,
That's really really bad.

Sam Losco
12/19/2016 5:46am,
That's really really bad.

It does nit really matter because if you try to throw someone in the street you, WW III will begin and will be swept by a hurricane before you drown in a vulcano covered in HIV positive needles and habanero sauce

itwasntme
12/19/2016 6:53am,
it actually looks like uke might be purple. idk much about this throw or the most efficient way to achieve kazushi, but can we be surprised if their throwing sucks? it's bjj, not judo, et al.

DCS
12/19/2016 10:09am,
it actually looks like uke might be purple. idk much about this throw or the most efficient way to achieve kazushi
Never take Sakuraba's name in vain.

This is a good explanation, notice how nage puts uke on his toes before entering. Seoi is a shoulder throw, loading uke on the hips like the guy in the OP clip should be minimal, at least in a demo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PialA1ROq8I


but can we be surprised if their throwing sucks? it's bjj, not judo, et al.
Maybe you're right.

Ed. Now I'm wondering what "The Collier Method of Judo (https://www.facebook.com/pg/KingsportJudoDojoTheCollierMethodOfJudo/posts/?ref=page_internal)" is about.

NeilG
12/19/2016 10:17am,
Why is that video called an in-depth analysis of seoi-nage when they don't show seoi-nage even once?

BKR
12/19/2016 11:41am,
Soft Judo...

I think that was term used a few years ago (or longer) by a particular Japanese-American judo teacher...

Yeah, Jin Izumi... that's the man.

http://www.mokurendojo.com/2009/08/jin-iizumi-legendary-soft-judo.html

https://uedata.amazon.com/LEGENDARY-SOFT-JUDO%C2%99-Iizumi-Shihan/dp/B000AX8C7A

Omega Supreme
12/19/2016 11:45am,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tecEItiGaow



Someone could tell them Seoi is Te waza, not Koshi waza.

In English: They are doing the unbalancing wrong and in the most inefficient way possible.

Oh, you noticed that too?

BKR
12/19/2016 11:57am,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tecEItiGaow



Someone could tell them Seoi is Te waza, not Koshi waza.

In English: They are doing the unbalancing wrong and in the most inefficient way possible.

Back when the "soft judo" by Izumi came out, I watched a fair amount of it. There was a a thread here as well, started by, yep, DCS...
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=25779

It also got discussed on the old Judo forum, I think.

From what I've seen, it's just basic Judo. I think the whole hard, power and strength an no timing description of modern competitive Judo(even back in 2005)was/ is a marketing ploy, really.

No doubt there are greater and lesser skill levels out there, and you can, up to a certain point, compensate with strength/power/and speed, but at the highest levels, if you suck at Judo, you are not going to win. Even hand-groomed genetic freak like Teddy Riner got better and better at Judo as time went on, out of necessity.

Soft Judo is just normal Judo.

The guys in the video are not horrible, although comments about te vs koshi waza are fair. They exhibit common flaws and mistakes that beginners (and frankly a lot of non-beginners) make when doing basic throwing movements.

They also walk heel to toe horribly, which is a fundamental movement error and will keep them from performing as well as they could. That is the first thing I would fix...

They basically skip kuzushi on a lot of the demo, although timing is OK mostly. They use what I call "lifting" kuzushi. Basically, they enter for the throw too close, and do not have any advantage until they pick uke up. Of course, uke in reality will not stand their waiting to be lifted, but will move or counter throw.

You can't practice Judo or anything assuming you will be up against an unskilled opponent. It just teaches bad habits that bite you in the ass pretty quickly if you compete.

Finally, and quite ironically, they do not hold on to uke after the throw. Not only is it harder on uke, but you would think in BJJ you might want to transition to groundwork at some point...

NeilG
12/19/2016 11:57am,
Why is that video called an in-depth analysis of seoi-nage when they don't show seoi-nage even once?

OK, so was I blind in not seeing the "Ippon" in the title or did it get changed?

BKR
12/19/2016 12:12pm,
Oh, you noticed that too?'

I'm sure it took him hours of careful analysis in slow motion to figure it out...

Omega Supreme
12/19/2016 12:27pm,
'

I'm sure it took him hours of careful analysis in slow motion to figure it out...

This is why I'm of the opinion that other systems shouldn't try to teach Judo, and that includes BJJ.

BKR
12/19/2016 3:14pm,
This is why I'm of the opinion that other systems shouldn't try to teach Judo, and that includes BJJ.

But then what would they use for submissions ?

Omega Supreme
12/19/2016 3:57pm,
But then what would they use for submissions ?

Well, that's where things get sticky. For example when I teach SAMBO or Jiujitsu I never use the Judo names, and yes I'm getting that anal. I mean I shot a video stating I was doing osot gari and all the Judoka lost their fucking mind, while other competitors simply shrugged their shoulders and said "cool". They should simply say "shoulder throw" not seo nage, then we couldn't whine about it.

DCS
12/19/2016 4:56pm,
'

I'm sure it took him hours of careful analysis in slow motion to figure it out...

Merry Christmas for you too.

Ming Loyalist
12/19/2016 5:11pm,
Well, that's where things get sticky. For example when I teach SAMBO or Jiujitsu I never use the Judo names, and yes I'm getting that anal. I mean I shot a video stating I was doing osot gari and all the Judoka lost their fucking mind, while other competitors simply shrugged their shoulders and said "cool". They should simply say "shoulder throw" not seo nage, then we couldn't whine about it.

i like this approach. there are lots of shuai jiao techniques that *resemble* judo techniques, but they are different, with different principles. it bothers me when people say things like "this technique is called X in judo" because judo is more than just a collection of techniques, it's far more accurate to say "this resembles a technique in judo named X", although i'm sure some people would say i'm taking the whole thing far too seriously.