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Rebi
7/28/2016 1:36am,
Hey y'all, this is my first post in this forum and this seemed like the right place for this question. I've very recently started learning Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in a local gym (about 3 weeks in) and I'm loving it so far. The class structure is usually half the class is dedicated to learning and drilling techniques such as mount escapes and passes, followed by rolling. At the rate of the class we learn about 2 techniques in a day, and at 3 weeks in (about my 7th-8th class) I've learned little of the basics. What we drill can only really be taken advantage of once you have decent technical knowledge and a good repertoire of submissions to draw from. I've technically learned no submissions in class, there are only three submissions I know how to do: a rear naked choke, an arm bar, and a guillotine. I've been thinking about learning some techniques outside of class, as I'd like to know at least one escape and one submission from the most common positions, maybe in Youtube videos, drilling them alone and experimenting with them during rolling. Is this something that's frowned upon or is considered unsportsmanlike? It's not about 'winning' rolls or trying to get an edge over the other students, getting tapped out is mostly all I do right now and I know that's normal for my level, I can handle that. I just want to learn at a pace that works better for me. I just feel quite clueless right now because all I can do is escape mount after mount without knowing how to do anything edgewise. That's probably how being a white belt works for everyone but I just don't feel the benefit in being clueless because I don't have a well rounded pool of techniques to draw from, and this is the best way I can think of. Opinions from people more familiar with the BJJ culture? I just want to know if this is standard fare and I'm overthinking it, or if I'm committing something haram.

DCS
7/28/2016 3:56am,
Welcome to Bullshido



I've been thinking about learning some techniques outside of class, as I'd like to know at least one escape and one submission from the most common positions, maybe in Youtube videos, drilling them alone and experimenting with them during rolling. Is this something that's frowned upon or is considered unsportsmanlike?

Unless your school has a standarized curriculum, there should be no problem.

At your stage, you should avoid youtube and look for DVD's or books focused in basic and reliable techniques and in how they are connected. I personally suggest Roy Dean's Blue Belt Requirements (http://www.slideyfoot.com/2008/06/dvd-review-blue-belt-requirements-roy.html) (not expensive IIRC) and Saulo Ribeiro's Jiu Jitsu University (http://www.slideyfoot.com/2009/05/book-review-jiu-jitsu-university-saulo.html).

gold_ax666
7/28/2016 4:42am,
Hey y'all, this is my first post in this forum and this seemed like the right place for this question. I've very recently started learning Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in a local gym (about 3 weeks in) and I'm loving it so far. The class structure is usually half the class is dedicated to learning and drilling techniques such as mount escapes and passes, followed by rolling. At the rate of the class we learn about 2 techniques in a day, and at 3 weeks in (about my 7th-8th class) I've learned little of the basics. What we drill can only really be taken advantage of once you have decent technical knowledge and a good repertoire of submissions to draw from. I've technically learned no submissions in class, there are only three submissions I know how to do: a rear naked choke, an arm bar, and a guillotine. I've been thinking about learning some techniques outside of class, as I'd like to know at least one escape and one submission from the most common positions, maybe in Youtube videos, drilling them alone and experimenting with them during rolling. Is this something that's frowned upon or is considered unsportsmanlike? It's not about 'winning' rolls or trying to get an edge over the other students, getting tapped out is mostly all I do right now and I know that's normal for my level, I can handle that. I just want to learn at a pace that works better for me. I just feel quite clueless right now because all I can do is escape mount after mount without knowing how to do anything edgewise. That's probably how being a white belt works for everyone but I just don't feel the benefit in being clueless because I don't have a well rounded pool of techniques to draw from, and this is the best way I can think of. Opinions from people more familiar with the BJJ culture? I just want to know if this is standard fare and I'm overthinking it, or if I'm committing something haram.

Hello mate and welcome to Bullshido

For what it is worth I am a 4 stripe white belt in BJJ (although have plenty of experience in MA in general) and still look forward to being owned throughout my Jitsu lessons! I learn from a guy who is a Nic Gregoriades black belt and I find the conceptual approach really suits me. Nic's Blueprint for BJJ is a good purchase- if you sign up to his newsletters I'm sure it won't be too long before he offers some sort of discount on his products too!

Enjoy your mat time!

Tramirezmma
7/28/2016 10:29am,
Hey Rebi, welcome to Bullshido.

As long as you don't use techniques Inappropriate for your level (leg locks, neck cranks, bicep slicer) you'll be fine.

I wouldn't worry about training too many new subs, start building a map to the ones you know. 2 guard passes, move to side control, set armbar. And use open mat time wisely.

Good luck mang.

gold_ax666
7/28/2016 10:39am,
Hey Rebi, welcome to Bullshido.

As long as you don't use techniques Inappropriate for your level (leg locks, neck cranks, bicep slicer) you'll be fine.

I wouldn't worry about training too many new subs, start building a map to the ones you know. 2 guard passes, move to side control, set armbar. And use open mat time wisely.

Good luck mang.

I used a biceps slicer once when rolling in a BJJ session (MMA background)- caught a blue belt with it. Was this a prohibited move for my grade? (4 str. white belt).

goodlun
7/28/2016 10:42am,
Don't get too hung up on "techniques" its all the transitioning that is between them that is important.
One of the best things you can do solo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTewItI9LGI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKY36e8sfw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT8giLQa8mQ
If you have the money a Combat X trainer is kind of fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN6g9xJlnMw

goodlun
7/28/2016 10:43am,
I used a biceps slicer once when rolling in a BJJ session (MMA background)- caught a blue belt with it. Was this a prohibited move for my grade? (4 str. white belt).

Depends on the gym, the rules are all over the place. There are gyms where subs are not limited at all by belt level. These tend to be the best gyms.

BKR
7/28/2016 10:55am,
Depends on the gym, the rules are all over the place. There are gyms where subs are not limited at all by belt level. These tend to be the best gyms.

yes, I love it when other white belts throw on leg locks and neck cranks. I'll give them this, they are very careful about it.

To contribute to the thread, I'd say be cautious about learning outside of class. If you teachers have a general plan on how they progress, stick with that. Just watching stuff or reading about it can help you, but what Goodlun wrote about general body skills and coordination is really most important thing.

As an example, I have a difficult time applying a lot of joint locks and chokes against resistance, due to arthritis in my wrists and shoulders, even when in a dominant position. I know how to do them, but, it's like applying the lock to myself, LOL!

So I work on maintaining control a lot, on flowing, surviving, instead of trying to be a submission machine.

goodlun
7/28/2016 11:03am,
yes, I love it when other white belts throw on leg locks and neck cranks. I'll give them this, they are very careful about it.

Those are white belts that from the get go that learn to hide their feet and protect there necks.

goodlun
7/28/2016 11:09am,
I suppose the I should add the caveat that those white belts are learning those techniques in class and not off of youtube and everyone knows when to tap to them, knows how they are applied properly and knows when not to crank on them. These are all things a white belt can learn, and there are indeed gyms that teach these things to them.

BKR
7/28/2016 11:17am,
Those are white belts that from the get go that learn to hide their feet and protect there necks.

Yeah, it's all good as long as nobody spazzes and twists a knee or neck going for "the TAP".

Remember I was posting "keep your feet to yourself", LOL!

I had a kid from Germany last night, strong as hell, who kept twisting my fingers, bending them the wrong way, and nearly ripped off my left thumb. I finally told him if he didn't stop he was going to piss me off. I did inform the coach, and he said, yeah, he was doing that to me too, so I just beat the crap out him, feel free to have at it with him, and he would eventually learn to not do that.

Unfortunately, I'm not quite as capable as he is, LOL!

BKR
7/28/2016 11:18am,
I suppose the I should add the caveat that those white belts are learning those techniques in class and not off of youtube and everyone knows when to tap to them, knows how they are applied properly and knows when not to crank on them. These are all things a white belt can learn, and there are indeed gyms that teach these things to them.

Sure, I'm lucky to be at one of those gyms.

goodlun
7/28/2016 11:27am,
Sure, I'm lucky to be at one of those gyms.

The same, the problem is largely this is the BJJ I have been exposed to so I am not sure if my "advise" carries through to say a Gracie school or not. Hell the one Gracie Humaita school I was at was taught by a Dean Lister black belt. So you know leg locks....
In fact looking back on my choices in schools most have come down to Dean Lister Black Belts or Roy Harris Black Belts bases both of which believe in teaching leg locks, neck cranks, and the what not. So I don't really know what is "normal" just what is "normal" for me even if its spread across quite a few schools.

BKR
7/28/2016 12:00pm,
The same, the problem is largely this is the BJJ I have been exposed to so I am not sure if my "advise" carries through to say a Gracie school or not. Hell the one Gracie Humaita school I was at was taught by a Dean Lister black belt. So you know leg locks....
In fact looking back on my choices in schools most have come down to Dean Lister Black Belts or Roy Harris Black Belts bases both of which believe in teaching leg locks, neck cranks, and the what not. So I don't really know what is "normal" just what is "normal" for me even if its spread across quite a few schools.

I don't know what normal (for BJJ/GJJ) is either. If a system teaches in a safe, progressive manner, I'm not sure it matters that much in the long run. A culture that emphasizes taking care of your training partner is critical, for sure, otherwise, injuries will go way up.

I do think it's possible to overwhelm people with too much information, though, and that the fundamentals (like those in the videos you posted), are critical to learn from the start. Another key component is the process rather than the end result. I've preached enough about that regarding Judo so won't elaborate further.

goodlun
7/28/2016 12:07pm,
I don't know what normal (for BJJ/GJJ) is either. If a system teaches in a safe, progressive manner, I'm not sure it matters that much in the long run. A culture that emphasizes taking care of your training partner is critical, for sure, otherwise, injuries will go way up.

I do think it's possible to overwhelm people with too much information, though, and that the fundamentals (like those in the videos you posted), are critical to learn from the start. Another key component is the process rather than the end result. I've preached enough about that regarding Judo so won't elaborate further.

I sometimes think of BJJ as not having techniques but only having positions and transitions, you can think of submissions as positions as in the finishing position of said submission as the position. I am sure some advance practitioners would disagree but its helpful for me at times.

cualltaigh
7/28/2016 5:57pm,
G'day Rebi, welcome to the site. Be sure to break up your posts into paragraphs, it just makes it easier for the rest of us to keep up with your posts ;-)

Now, yes you are overthinking it and yes, this is a normal progression for your level. Also I wouldn't advise heading to professor youtube at your level.

However, if you do want to get some extra mat time in (which is awesome) you could perhaps sign up for some private lessons with your instructor. Or, you could turn up to classes half an hour early with someone of a like mind and just drill positions - or even to get a coloured belt to show you some fundamentals to drill in that time.