PDA

View Full Version : 9mm rounds fired by NYPD fail to penetrate ordinary jacket



Pages : [1] 2 3

Wounded Ronin
5/19/2016 8:24pm,
So, according to the New York Post, the NYPD is doing an investigation after 9mm rounds fired at a knife-wielding suspect failed to penetrate his ordinary jacket.

http://nypost.com/2016/05/19/nypd-checking-ammo-after-knifemans-jacket-stops-cops-bullets/

Four of nine rounds fired lodged in the jacket instead of punching through and going into the suspect.

It's been said that these days, the issues of 9mm "stopping power" have been addressed by police departments switching to various types of JHP ammunition. However, there was apparently an ammunition performance problem in this case.

Is this a fluke, or typical?

According to http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/big-10-protection-duty-guns-americas-largest-police-departments/#sig-p226-frame the NYPD uses Speer's 124-grain Gold Dot hollow point +p cartridges.

Does anyone have experience using this round?

ghost55
5/19/2016 10:50pm,
Clearly they need to switch to using Desert Eagles chambered in .50ae

BackFistMonkey
5/19/2016 11:06pm,
So, according to the New York Post, the NYPD is doing an investigation after 9mm rounds fired at a knife-wielding suspect failed to penetrate his ordinary jacket.

http://nypost.com/2016/05/19/nypd-checking-ammo-after-knifemans-jacket-stops-cops-bullets/

Four of nine rounds fired lodged in the jacket instead of punching through and going into the suspect.

It's been said that these days, the issues of 9mm "stopping power" have been addressed by police departments switching to various types of JHP ammunition. However, there was apparently an ammunition performance problem in this case.

Is this a fluke, or typical?

According to http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/big-10-protection-duty-guns-americas-largest-police-departments/#sig-p226-frame the NYPD uses Speer's 124-grain Gold Dot hollow point +p cartridges.

Does anyone have experience using this round?
That is some subpar and very early 1900's level performance ... I would assume it is was his weapon or limited to his batch of ammo.

ghost55
5/19/2016 11:18pm,
That is some subpar and very early 1900's level performance ... I would assume it is was his weapon or limited to his batch of ammo.

I wonder if it's possible for a Glock in 9x19mm to chamber 9mm Makarov rounds.

ChenPengFi
5/20/2016 12:02am,
Box o' truth did some tests with clothing.
Pretty interesting effect the clothing had in some cases.
This is the first installment.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-8-the-rags-o-truth/

ghost55
5/20/2016 12:13am,
Box o' truth did some tests with clothing.
Pretty interesting effect the clothing had in some cases.
This is the first installment.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-8-the-rags-o-truth/

So thick clothing can drastically reduce the effectiveness of hollow points

Cassius
5/20/2016 6:00am,
The wound channel and ShootingTheBull410 YouTube channels both do a good job of replicating some of the FBI ballistics testing using various types of ammunition. The bottom line is that every type of ammunition and every caliber have benefits and drawbacks. Thick clothing can cause extremely reliable newer designs for hollowpoints such as Federal HST and Speer Gold Dot to malfunction. There are novel and newer generation bullet designs like Lehigh Defense Extreme Defender or bullets designed to fracture when exposed to hydraulic stress and produce secondary wound channels. Bullets like these are designed to penetrate consistently over a broader spectrum of circumstances, but they are unproven and likely would be viewed as gimmicks by an organization so backward that it tstil requires police to carry semi autos with 11+ lb triggers, and are barely given time to train with said weapons.

Ultimately, until crooks start buying soft body armor en masse, JHPs that expand consistently and reliably while exhibiting some barrier blind characteristics are still an outstanding option.

Cassius
5/20/2016 6:52am,
Also: Last I checked, NYPD officers had miss rates approaching 80%, so investigating their ammunition for failing to penetrate sufficiently in a circumstance in which it is known to sometimes fail is bikeshedding at best.

Maybe the fine politicians of NYC should be investigated for requiring their police officers to carry guns with unusably heavy triggers or for making it hard for them to get training they need to be succesful.

Bneterasedmynam
5/20/2016 8:13am,
Also: Last I checked, NYPD officers had miss rates approaching 80%, so investigating their ammunition for failing to penetrate sufficiently in a circumstance in which it is known to sometimes fail is bikeshedding at best.

Maybe the fine politicians of NYC should be investigated for requiring their police officers to carry guns with unusably heavy triggers or for making it hard for them to get training they need to be succesful.

Lol I was just about to ask given the NYPD's history if these were from ricochets or if maybe the rounds had already passed through a bystander.

Ming Loyalist
5/20/2016 8:25am,
Lol I was just about to ask given the NYPD's history if these were from ricochets or if maybe the rounds had already passed through a bystander.

people like to rip on the NYPD and their marksmanship, but those heavy triggers are no joke, and are a serious detriment to marksmanship.

Ming Loyalist
5/20/2016 9:59am,
how tight are your groups with a 12 pound trigger pull, care to post some targets? How about when shooting under stressful situations?

Bneterasedmynam
5/20/2016 10:10am,
how tight are your groups with a 12 pound trigger pull, care to post some targets? How about when shooting under stressful situations?

I did have a pretty heavy trigger pull on my old 9mm. It was a double only without a safety so the pull was heavy I think to be its own safety. Anyway it's a moot point as I am not a cop. You're basically making excuses for what is most certainly a hiring problem. Tell me what a trigger weight has to do with shooting someone in the back 12 times while they're laying on the ground. From what I have seen from every single video ever posted on the NYPD their lack of aim seems to come from the fact that they spaz out and not from a heavy trigger. I really can't believe you're actually using that as an excuse. Oh boohoo our triggers are too heavy to pull. Yet it doesn't seem to stop them from firing 80 shots each every time someone sneezes too loud.

Yes their jobs are stressful, but so are a lot of jobs, it's just another bullshit excuse. Again this comes down to hiring. Police forces in general need to stop hiring wannabes. It's the ones that are making up for their small dicks and lack of courage that need to go.

Raycetpfl
5/20/2016 10:43am,
Yes their jobs are stressful, but so are a lot of jobs, it's just another bullshit excuse. Again this comes down to hiring. Police forces in general need to stop hiring wannabes. It's the ones that are making up for their small dicks and lack of courage that need to go.
$$$$$ it's all about the Benjamins. I would be happy to chase down dipshits but I am gonna need to paid well for it. I really like all that stuff but I like taking care of my family most.
We should all lobby for much higher physical standards,marksmanship and IQ. But if you want the best and brightest they are going to want to be paid for it.

Raycetpfl
5/20/2016 10:55am,
Also: Last I checked, NYPD officers had miss rates approaching 80%, so investigating their ammunition for failing to penetrate sufficiently in a circumstance in which it is known to sometimes fail is bikeshedding at best.

Maybe the fine politicians of NYC should be investigated for requiring their police officers to carry guns with unusably heavy triggers or for making it hard for them to get training they need to be succesful.
G19, DAO Sig P226 9mm, and the S&W 5946 are approved duty weapons.they don't have to choose the sig. Unless they have to get their triggers detuned only the sig Dao would have a heavy pull. It's sill to make them use a sig dao. It takes all the awesomeness out of that gun.

Ming Loyalist
5/20/2016 12:13pm,
I did have a pretty heavy trigger pull on my old 9mm. It was a double only without a safety so the pull was heavy I think to be its own safety. Anyway it's a moot point as I am not a cop. You're basically making excuses for what is most certainly a hiring problem. Tell me what a trigger weight has to do with shooting someone in the back 12 times while they're laying on the ground. From what I have seen from every single video ever posted on the NYPD their lack of aim seems to come from the fact that they spaz out and not from a heavy trigger. I really can't believe you're actually using that as an excuse. Oh boohoo our triggers are too heavy to pull. Yet it doesn't seem to stop them from firing 80 shots each every time someone sneezes too loud.

Yes their jobs are stressful, but so are a lot of jobs, it's just another bullshit excuse. Again this comes down to hiring. Police forces in general need to stop hiring wannabes. It's the ones that are making up for their small dicks and lack of courage that need to go.

i'm pointing out that everyone likes to **** all over the NYPD but they have a tough job, and most people have never shot a handgun *ever* yet feel like they can talk **** about the marksmanship of someone who is forced to use a duty weapon that makes accuracy *more* difficult.

which case are you talking about with the 12 shots in the back? i don't remember it, so you're going to have to link it. you have an actual case that you're referencing, right?

Ming Loyalist
5/20/2016 12:19pm,
G19, DAO Sig P226 9mm, and the S&W 5946 are approved duty weapons.they don't have to choose the sig. Unless they have to get their triggers detuned only the sig Dao would have a heavy pull. It's sill to make them use a sig dao. It takes all the awesomeness out of that gun.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/foghorn/nypds-choice-of-firearm-may-have-contributed-to-the-terrible-shooting/


NYPD cops are given a choice. They can have a SIG P226, a Glock 19, or a Smith & Wesson 5946. But no matter what they choose, the triggers are modified to have a 12 pound pull for every shot fired.