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ghost55
1/04/2016 12:41am,
Well, I'm 21 now, and I want to exercise my constitutional right as a free American and buy a hand gun (also being able to get an armed security licence would be nice). On my 21st birthday I went to a local range and rented a few guns. I ended up firing a Beretta M9, a Glock 17, an HK USP, and a Rock River 1911. I fell in love with the 1911's accuracy, manageability, and smooth trigger pull. I've done some research, and I'm currently trying to choose between the Remington 1911R1 and the Kimber Custom II (used on that second one because budget). Not planning on using this as a concealed carry gun or anything. Just for range fun and maybe security work. Anything else I should keep in mind?

Wounded Ronin
1/04/2016 1:13am,
Well, I'm 21 now, and I want to exercise my constitutional right as a free American and buy a hand gun (also being able to get an armed security licence would be nice). On my 21st birthday I went to a local range and rented a few guns. I ended up firing a Beretta M9, a Glock 17, an HK USP, and a Rock River 1911. I fell in love with the 1911's accuracy, manageability, and smooth trigger pull. I've done some research, and I'm currently trying to choose between the Remington 1911R1 and the Kimber Custom II (used on that second one because budget). Not planning on using this as a concealed carry gun or anything. Just for range fun and maybe security work. Anything else I should keep in mind?

I own a Kimber TLE Custom II which I had bought used. That firearm brought me much pleasure as I used it for local competitions. At one point in time I was doing these competitions once a month.

The one thing I will say from my experience is that I don't feel that gun is reliable enough for security work or for home defense. I used to get a stoppage once or twice every 250 rounds fired in competition. The thing that was uniquely bad about it was that when I tried to clear the stoppage it would always turn into a type 3 stoppage so I got into the habit of clearing all stoppages as a type 3 with that particular gun. In case you were wondering if I am just bad at clearing stoppages, I'll tell you now that I can clear stoppages normally on other guns, or during training with other guns where a dummy round is loaded into the magazine. :)

Of all the pistols I own (including a Ruger P97 DC, a gen 4 Glock in 9mm, and an old Romanian Tokarev) that Kimber was the least reliable. On occasion I would compete with the Ruger P97 DC just for the hell of it, even though as a competition gun it is inferior in many ways to the Kimber. The Ruger P97 DC never got a stoppage, ever. Likewise, I never competed with the Tokarev and so never put as many rounds through it as the more modern firearms, but with the old Tokarev I never got a stoppage, ever.

I even took the Kimber to a gunsmith, had the extractor changed and re tensioned. It seemed to be more reliable for a while after that but would quickly revert to the old amount of stoppages. The next thing I was going to do was change the ejector, but before I could get around to it I left the US for a while and stopped shooting.


So, long story short, I love the Kimber Custom II. It's a pleasure to shoot. It has become legendary due to the LAPD SWAT legacy. It has wonderful accuracy and a crisp trigger pull.

But if my life ever depended on it, I'd use the Ruger P97 DC. The Ruger is top heavy which accentuates recoil, has a mushy trigger pull, and has an awkward double action first shot, but at least I know I won't get one of those horrible stoppages like I would get with the Kimber.

(I didn't say Glock because I haven't trained with it nearly as much as with the Ruger, but obviously a Glock would also be a good choice especially if you shot a lot with it for your sports.)

I think you should use the Kimber for sports, but if you are going to do security work, you need something more reliable.

Raycetpfl
1/04/2016 1:21am,
Well, I'm 21 now, and I want to exercise my constitutional right as a free American and buy a hand gun (also being able to get an armed security licence would be nice). On my 21st birthday I went to a local range and rented a few guns. I ended up firing a Beretta M9, a Glock 17, an HK USP, and a Rock River 1911. I fell in love with the 1911's accuracy, manageability, and smooth trigger pull. I've done some research, and I'm currently trying to choose between the Remington 1911R1 and the Kimber Custom II (used on that second one because budget). Not planning on using this as a concealed carry gun or anything. Just for range fun and maybe security work. Anything else I should keep in mind?https://www.gunsamerica.com/48-hour-guns/Armscor-Rock-Island-Armory/Armscor-Rock-Island-Armory-ARM-M1911A2FS-45AP-5PK-AS-14RD-51567/126/51567/9138.htm for the money you are are talking about spending a competition rock island would be the best you could afford.

ghost55
1/04/2016 1:24am,
From what I've heard, The Remington model tends to operate flawlessly as long as you stick to standard ball ammo. Apparently the gun was just not designed with hollowpoints in mind.The Kimbers seem to start at $800 anyway, so the Remington is a solid $200 cheaper.

Raycetpfl
1/04/2016 1:32am,
From what I've heard, The Remington model tends to operate flawlessly as long as you stick to standard ball ammo. Apparently the gun was just not designed with hollowpoints in mind.The Kimbers seem to start at $800 anyway, so the Remington is a solid $200 cheaper.

All 1911's were designed for ball ammo and they all take some breaking in generally.
Wether it is a rock island or a $6000 night hawk they often take about a 1000 rounds before they break in.

I

Wounded Ronin
1/04/2016 4:28am,
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol), when the original 1911 was in testing,



Six thousand rounds were fired from a single pistol over the course of two days. When the gun began to grow hot, it was simply immersed in water to cool it. The Colt gun passed with no reported malfunctions, while the Savage designs had 37.


It makes me think, "Jesus! Why is it so hard today to find a 1911 that's simply reliable?"

Devil
1/04/2016 10:09am,
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol), when the original 1911 was in testing,



It makes me think, "Jesus! Why is it so hard today to find a 1911 that's simply reliable?"

I've heard many different discussions about exactly that. Many different lines of reasoning. Some which are easy to verify and some that aren't. Like 1911s used to be built with more handwork and now are built with very little handwork. Or they used to be built looser, etc.

None of the reasoning matters too much to me. I'm a 1911 lover but there's just no denying that they're more temperamental than modern combat pistols. I believe the differences in the amount of bearing surfaces between the slide rails and frame rails accounts for a lot of the reliability differences.

I do know a few custom builders who can build a mean as **** 1911 but they're few and far between. It's still a great pistol but you just have to accept it for what it is, strengths and weaknesses alike.

Devil
1/04/2016 10:17am,
Well, I'm 21 now, and I want to exercise my constitutional right as a free American and buy a hand gun (also being able to get an armed security licence would be nice). On my 21st birthday I went to a local range and rented a few guns. I ended up firing a Beretta M9, a Glock 17, an HK USP, and a Rock River 1911. I fell in love with the 1911's accuracy, manageability, and smooth trigger pull. I've done some research, and I'm currently trying to choose between the Remington 1911R1 and the Kimber Custom II (used on that second one because budget). Not planning on using this as a concealed carry gun or anything. Just for range fun and maybe security work. Anything else I should keep in mind?

Don't forget the awesome Sig P226. One of my favorite guns. They're as reliable as any pistol in the world. Some of them are really good looking, unlike the dog ugly Glock. They're not made of plastic. Some of them come with a lot of the cool features you love about the 1911, like a beavertail and grip checkering. They're quieter than the Glocks when suppressed.

I fucking love Sigs. I have one I've been shooting since 1998 and I can't recall a single malfunction.

Raycetpfl
1/04/2016 10:31am,
Don't forget the awesome Sig P226. One of my favorite guns. They're as reliable as any pistol in the world. Some of them are really good looking, unlike the dog ugly Glock. They're not made of plastic. Some of them come with a lot of the cool features you love about the 1911, like a beavertail and grip checkering. They're quieter than the Glocks when suppressed.

I fucking love Sigs. I have one I've been shooting since 1998 and I can't recall a single malfunction.

Sigs are pricey but worth every penny. I had the plastic sig 2022 9mm. It was a great gun but I just can't seem to fall in love with plastic. Plastic guns are a bit lighter and seem to just not shoot as nice for me so i sold it to my uncle. The P226 is a dream to shoot and I love the first pull double action trigger on semi autos. It's my favorite way to carry, one in the chamber and hammer down.
Ghost, Before you buy you should really shoot a CZ 75. It can be carried hammer down one on the chamber (double action)or cocked and locked. It's right up there with a nice 1911 or Sig in terms of how it shoots.

Ming Loyalist
1/04/2016 12:33pm,
copycat.

just be glad you didn't have to go to the courthouse to stand in line for an hour in order to get a certificate of disposition for a goddamn *flyering* summons you got 10 years ago, (grumble grumble NYC, grumble)

goodlun
1/04/2016 1:37pm,
I am still a fan of the http://www.waltherarms.com/handguns/p99/

ghost55
1/04/2016 4:16pm,
I've heard many different discussions about exactly that. Many different lines of reasoning. Some which are easy to verify and some that aren't. Like 1911s used to be built with more handwork and now are built with very little handwork. Or they used to be built looser, etc.

None of the reasoning matters too much to me. I'm a 1911 lover but there's just no denying that they're more temperamental than modern combat pistols. I believe the differences in the amount of bearing surfaces between the slide rails and frame rails accounts for a lot of the reliability differences.

I do know a few custom builders who can build a mean as **** 1911 but they're few and far between. It's still a great pistol but you just have to accept it for what it is, strengths and weaknesses alike.

I can live with cleaning and oiling the thing ever 200 rnds and the limited ammo choice. I just love the smooth trigger pull and the accuracy. I am by no means a good shot, but I had a much easier time getting the bullets to go exactly where I wanted them to with the 1911 than any other gun bar a ruger .22 pistol.

Devil
1/04/2016 4:53pm,
I can live with cleaning and oiling the thing ever 200 rnds and the limited ammo choice. I just love the smooth trigger pull and the accuracy. I am by no means a good shot, but I had a much easier time getting the bullets to go exactly where I wanted them to with the 1911 than any other gun bar a ruger .22 pistol.

Yes. It's a shooter's gun. A properly worked trigger on a 1911 is as good as it gets, in my opinion.

goodlun
1/04/2016 5:00pm,
Really my only objection to the 1911 is that ammo can be a bit on the expensive side of things.

Devil
1/04/2016 5:08pm,
Really my only objection to the 1911 is that ammo can be a bit on the expensive side of things.

That's not a legitimate complaint against a 1911. That's like saying Glock ammo is too expensive when you can buy a Glock in multiple calibers. Same with the 1911.

goodlun
1/04/2016 5:18pm,
That's not a legitimate complaint against a 1911. That's like saying Glock ammo is too expensive when you can buy a Glock in multiple calibers. Same with the 1911.

Fine a 1911 in its traditional .45 APC caliber can be a good bit more expensive to shoot vs a 9 mm caliber.