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plasma
10/16/2015 8:39am,
For Bullshido's grapplers, when you are training at your dojo/academy what ruleset do you generally agree upon for rounds?


IJF
IJF Pre-2009
IBJJF
IBJJF - At your Belt Level Only
NAGA No-Gi / Submission Wrestling
SAMBO
Some sure of Hybrid Ruleset
Folkstyle Wrestling
Combat Submission Wrestling / Catch Wrestling
Freestyle Wrestling
Greco Roman Wrestling


For me:

When I am wearing a Gi I use IJF Pre-2009 when working Takedowns only and IBJJF when including Ground Work. For the IJF rules, I use the Pre-2009 rules that allow leg attacks, but as I don't compete Judo anymore I tend to ignore the strict gripping rules. For IBJJF, I don't stick to Purple Belt only submissions, I included Brown and Belt submissions such as Kneebars and Toe Holds.

When I am doing No-Gi I use NAGA No-Gi rules, which means Flying scissors takedowns, All Leg Entanglements, Heel Hooks and Neck/Spine Cracks are ok.

Ming Loyalist
10/16/2015 8:54am,
we're a USA judo/USJF dojo and we stick with current IJF rules for the most part other than gi regulations (and no one is there calling shidos in randori other than the occasional "hey, watch that <insert foul> in competition, it'll get you a shido" comment from the sides.)

1point2
10/16/2015 9:18am,
At BJJ in the gi roughly IBJJF, but I don't respect belt level restrictions on submissions (I know what a kneebar is, let's be real here) and sometimes I want to play around with knee reaping. Without the gi it's...the same, really.

I don't play judo much these days but it's basically IJF circa 2009.

DCS
10/16/2015 9:34am,
At BJJ in the gi roughly IBJJF, but I don't respect belt level restrictions on submissions (I know what a kneebar is, let's be real here) and sometimes I want to play around with knee reaping. Without the gi it's...the same, really.

Basically this.

Raycetpfl
10/16/2015 10:06am,
No neck cranks in Gi.no twisting locks,compression locks until a few stripes on your blue and don't do them to white belts or low blues.

Same rules apply as far as level in no gi but neck cranks are allowed at high blue belt . Once you're a high ranking blue I don't care what they do.if it's gonna be twisting locks and cranks I want it to be discussed before the match so there aren't suprise. Twisting locks and cranks **** people up too fast to not be thinking about them if one gets slapped on them and then they cant train for a while.So awareness is key with the fast hitting things.

We also do striking with our grappling. Same rules apply. Verbal tapping when strikes are legal is encouraged. It helps stop the "He's still hitting me. CRANK HARDER! " situation from happening.

We will do grappling only 2 on 1 and 3on 1. No leg attacks are allowed to be done to the single combatant. You don't want one person pulling their leg\ankle east and the other person pulling their shoulders west and pop goes the weasel :-(.

BKR
10/16/2015 1:06pm,
For Bullshido's grapplers, when you are training at your dojo/academy what ruleset do you generally agree upon for rounds?


IJF
IJF Pre-2009
IBJJF
IBJJF - At your Belt Level Only
NAGA No-Gi / Submission Wrestling
SAMBO
Some sure of Hybrid Ruleset
Folkstyle Wrestling
Combat Submission Wrestling / Catch Wrestling
Freestyle Wrestling
Greco Roman Wrestling


For me:

When I am wearing a Gi I use IJF Pre-2009 when working Takedowns only and IBJJF when including Ground Work. For the IJF rules, I use the Pre-2009 rules that allow leg attacks, but as I don't compete Judo anymore I tend to ignore the strict gripping rules. For IBJJF, I don't stick to Purple Belt only submissions, I included Brown and Belt submissions such as Kneebars and Toe Holds.

When I am doing No-Gi I use NAGA No-Gi rules, which means Flying scissors takedowns, All Leg Entanglements, Heel Hooks and Neck/Spine Cracks are ok.

Current IJF, as many disagreements as I have with them, as my students compete under IJF rules at sanctioned tournaments. Like Ming Loyalist, nobody is there calling shidos and such, although in some drills I do point them out.

I myself still do leg grabs in randori, but I don't compete anymore so who cares. It's good experience for the students.

At BJJ, we have only done "gi" stuff, and we are not even discussing competition as it's almost all beginners. When there are higher guys, they refrain from leglocking us helpless whitebelts.

goodlun
10/16/2015 7:40pm,
From what I can tell we don't adhere to any particular rule set other than don't be a dick head.
Wrist locks, compression locks, leg locks, toe holds/presses, all seem to be fine for any belt level as long as you know what your doing.

ghost55
10/16/2015 9:13pm,
From what I can tell we don't adhere to any particular rule set other than don't be a dick head.
Wrist locks, compression locks, leg locks, toe holds/presses, all seem to be fine for any belt level as long as you know what your doing.

We also do this.

FatC
10/19/2015 8:33am,
For our school we try to stick to no heel hooks (catch and release) until a year then all submissions are open. If we are getting ready for a certain rule set for competition we will use that for a month or two before hand.

At my buddies gym that we cross train at I stick to GI rules for the gi and non competitive people. Rest of them i'll just catch and release heel hooks but use everything else.

searcher66071
10/19/2015 8:19pm,
Mine depends on what day of the week it is.

I train Sambo 2x per week and use Sambo rules during those sessions.

In my Judo classes, we tend to use Freestyle Judo rules with the exception that if we have a tournament coming up that is a USA Judo event. But, most of the time it is Freestyle Judo rules.

During my BJJ classes(the only ones I teach), I use IBJJF, unless there is one of the guys training for MMA(seems to be very often these days). We use the IBJJF, eve though we have been going to sub-only tournaments more lately.

Mr.Miyagi
10/20/2015 12:35am,
Gym overall: mostly IBJJF as a few of the peeps compete regularly.

White belts mostly IBJJF but no ankle locks being finished, but catch and release on straight ankle for comp stuff.

Coloured Belts with each other can leg lock/compression etc up to toe holds as long as they agree on it before hand e.g. they know that the other person is going for them Mostly it's high blues or purple and up that do Toe Holds at all as we don't teach them all that often in general classes.

Note - I've been working with the other purples and high blues at the moment with a bit more focus on leg games and strategies as auxiliary to our class work, this little crew is getting a lot better at knowing what's going on, so a few specific group I would like to start doing some catch and release (hold only, no torque) heel hook stuff; these are only guys I've been training with for the last 3+ years or more so I know them and trust them a heap and vice-versa. This is to help me get better at them and being more aware when my ankle/legs are in danger just as a learning exercise rather than because I'm looking to compete in MMA/Naga style events etc.

1point2
10/20/2015 1:54am,
White belts mostly IBJJF but no ankle locks being finished, but catch and release on straight ankle for comp stuff.

I don't mean to attack you, and I've seen this in multiple gyms I've trained at, but can we just reflect on how insane this is? The straight ankle lock is legal at white belt. It is as legal and as dangerously prone to injury due to misapplication or failure-to-tap as a Kimura. It's crazy that so many gyms play catch-and-release with this submission (even if only with the lower belts). Their opponent in competition can crank on it! It's a fundamental submission in BJJ! White belts need to know how to recognize this submission, how to tap to it, how to attack and defend it, just as much as a straight armbar. But it rarely gets that minimum of respect. I've been taught the straight armbar at least fifty times, the Kimura in detail at least twenty, and the straight ankle lock maybe once (except for the times I explicitly asked during open mats).

The attitude I've seen in the BJJ community towards lower body submissions is completely bonkers and I'm glad it's being changed by the recent rash of leglock specialists. Maybe it's different at other gyms. I'm just flabbergasted to keep hearing that a white-belt-legal submission is treated like plutonium.

cualltaigh
10/20/2015 2:15am,
I don't mean to attack you, and I've seen this in multiple gyms I've trained at, but can we just reflect on how insane this is? The straight ankle lock is legal at white belt. It is as legal and as dangerously prone to injury due to misapplication or failure-to-tap as a Kimura. It's crazy that so many gyms play catch-and-release with this submission (even if only with the lower belts). Their opponent in competition can crank on it! It's a fundamental submission in BJJ! White belts need to know how to recognize this submission, how to tap to it, how to attack and defend it, just as much as a straight armbar. But it rarely gets that minimum of respect. I've been taught the straight armbar at least fifty times, the Kimura in detail at least twenty, and the straight ankle lock maybe once (except for the times I explicitly asked during open mats).

The attitude I've seen in the BJJ community towards lower body submissions is completely bonkers and I'm glad it's being changed by the recent rash of leglock specialists. Maybe it's different at other gyms. I'm just flabbergasted to keep hearing that a white-belt-legal submission is treated like plutonium.

Our coach had a number of ligaments ruptured in his ankle a few years back by a white belt who twisted what should've been a straight ankle lock. You now need to be a 4 stripe white or higher to do it in our gym.

1point2
10/20/2015 2:35am,
Our coach had a number of ligaments ruptured in his ankle a few years back by a white belt who twisted what should've been a straight ankle lock. You now need to be a 4 stripe white or higher to do it in our gym.

OK, but I've seen similar serious injuries from a knee-cut pass, an ouchigari, and I'm sure we can imagine the same from a Kimura or straight armbar. Why don't we restrict those techniques? What makes lower-body submissions dangerous is that people don't know how to defend or when to tap, and people crank on them. Those problems are best solved by teaching them earlier, not later.

1point2
10/20/2015 2:39am,
I mean, there's a similar situation with takedowns. BJJ schools avoid them because there's a perception that standing practice is injury-prone, which produces more BJJ players who are bad at breakfalling and throws, which makes standing practice more dangerous. Yet BJJ matches start from standing at all belt levels, which makes the problem unavoidable. The popular solution of not often practicing takedowns in sparring is just sweeping the issue under the rug.

Mr.Miyagi
10/20/2015 3:29am,
I don't mean to attack you, and I've seen this in multiple gyms I've trained at, but can we just reflect on how insane this is? The straight ankle lock is legal at white belt. It is as legal and as dangerously prone to injury due to misapplication or failure-to-tap as a Kimura. It's crazy that so many gyms play catch-and-release with this submission (even if only with the lower belts). Their opponent in competition can crank on it! It's a fundamental submission in BJJ! White belts need to know how to recognize this submission, how to tap to it, how to attack and defend it, just as much as a straight armbar. But it rarely gets that minimum of respect. I've been taught the straight armbar at least fifty times, the Kimura in detail at least twenty, and the straight ankle lock maybe once (except for the times I explicitly asked during open mats).

The attitude I've seen in the BJJ community towards lower body submissions is completely bonkers and I'm glad it's being changed by the recent rash of leglock specialists. Maybe it's different at other gyms. I'm just flabbergasted to keep hearing that a white-belt-legal submission is treated like plutonium.

Hey it's cool, attack away :p. White belts do get shown the straight ankle lock setup, finish, and defense/escape, and in drilling etc they'll put it on, if they're competing they'll train with it (in rolling) - but we'll also advise going for other submissions over ankle locks for a new white belt.

Our classes are mixed after the first 3 months e.g. intro to BJJ then straight to the open classes (all belt levels and experience) so I think it's also a way just to limit those still on the spazzy-mode to avoid it for a little while especially the drop from standing entry > finish. I think it aids as well to stop the new Blues from targetting the poor newb white belt legs over and over rather than working on the more valuable stuff of passing, retaining, position control etc. So I don't disagree with you or your points either!

I personally love lower body submissions and have since I saw them as a white belt, I'd practice them, and roll with them (with specific people or higher belts) - but rolling with them generally was more a focus at high white as I was approaching my Blue as I wanted to get better earlier at them (so I'd be better now, haha). And I think they are important for White Belts to know and be rolling with well, but it's also not my gym or my insurance, and I'd guess over 15 years of running the gym this is a good mid-point for white belt engagement, readiness, and lowered injury count (to rationalise)?

As to the point on "Why are they seen or are they more dangerous" I don't think there's anything that makes them inherently more dangerous outside of the lowered bio-feedback you getó because, in my opinion, I do think they take more bodily awareness to be safe - rotational leg attacks as a prime example are hard to "feel" due to the lack of pain, you're feeling the pressure in the joint and torque of the limb itself that's something that's super difficult to keep in mind as a white belt when you've not had someone lie their weight on you and try and twist your neck off (which feels super real and has direct pain feedback, for example).