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Kungfoolss
12/02/2002 9:58pm,
http://www.mazeministry.com/mormonism/newsletters_articles/longo/

Cult remnant still believes after 22 years

Murder-suicides In Salt Lake didnít finish Family of David

By Bill Morlin

Staff writer


Rachel David is the lone survivor of an 11-story plunge that claimed the lives of her six siblings and her mother in Salt Lake City in 1978. Today she lives in Arora, Colorado with ther uncle, Jacob David, who still believes her late father is God.

On August morning in 1978, Rachel David marched her seven children to an 11th-floor balcony of a Salt Lake City hotel. One by one, she threw or coaxed them over the railing. Then she jumped. Three days earlier, her husband, Immanuel David, who believed he was God, killed himself because the FBI was investigating his cult. Most people thought the shocking saga of lmmanuel David and his cult Ė the biggest murder-suicide case in Utahís history Ėended 22 years ago.

It didnít.

About a dozen members of the Family of David in Spokane and Denver are keeping alive the belief that Immanuel David is God. All have changed their last names to David. One member is the woman who, as a 15-year-old, was the only survivor of the 100-foot plunge from the balcony. She is now 38, brain-damaged and otherwise disabled, and lives with remnants of Immanuel Davidís flock near Denver. Leaders of the Family of David signed and distributed a "testimonial letter" three years ago that outlines their beliefs and commitment to the man they still say is God. They denounce Mormons and Catholics as the anti-Christ. The Family of David has attempted to recruit back two former followers, in Utah and Kentucky, who say they want nothing to do with the "dangerous cult."

But those in the sect say they wouldnít think of following their Godís path of suicide. "Itís hard for me to fathom," said Dean Longo, chief of police in Auburndale, Fla. He was a police officer in Vero Beach, Fla., when his brother, Charles Bruce Longo, became Immanuel David and declared he was God. "I think my brother actually believed, in his own mind, that he was God," Dean Longo said. "He was that far off base. "He was a very flawed mortal, so for him to have gained this kind of influence over people is amazing, particularly for it to still exist," he said. In their testimonial letter and in interviews, Immanuel Davidís followers in Spokane and Denver say they believe their God is about to return, and theyíre preparing for his second coming. They claim the Star of David belongs to Immanuel David and not to Jews. They also say white people are the real Israelites, the true children of God Ė religious beliefs that stem in part from the so-called Lost Books of the Bible.

The testimonial letter is given to those who ask about the groupís beliefs, but leaders say they arenít proselytizing. In the letter they say they believe they are reincarnated biblical figuresĖMoses, Abraham, Adam, Eve, and others. The disabled survivor of the hotel plunge is told sheís Eve. Rachel David, who has the same name as her late mother, now lives in Aurora, Colo., with other members of the "family." Authorities in Utah, after spending more than $100,000 on the teenagerís medical recovery, ultimately released her to a foster home. At some later point she began living with her uncle, who had changed his name to Jacob David and joined the sect. Itís unclear if officials with Utahís Division of Family Services knew that Rachel David ended up back with the same sect that police say attempted to kill her. Jacob David, now her legal guardian, said he provides good care for Rachel David. They live in a rented home with his three sons and Ruth David, the former wife of Spokane resident Matthias David.

Rachel David canít remember what happened to her in 1978. "Itís all hazy," she said from her wheelchair as Jacob David listened. Her speech is halting and she seems frustrated that she canít speak more quickly. "Itís something I want to shove out," she said. "I want my family back." She canít walk, but raises her crippled body with the aid of a walker. She does paint-by-number art and likes coffee and listening to Neil Diamond. She said she likes to go outdoors, but gets out only about twice a week "if somebody takes me." She sometimes erupts in anger or a flurry of vocal demands, her family members say. Her father will soon return, as God, Jacob David says. He and a Spokane man, Matthias David Ė Immanuel Davidís one-time bodyguard Ė are described as leaders of the family, which apparently has about a dozen members. Matthias David, 56, believes he once was Moses. Jacob David, whoís 64, says he is Abraham reincarnated.

They are in regular contact and frequently meet during campouts at Priest Lake, Idaho. Matthias David now owns a Spokane martial arts studio. He is an accomplished karate instructor who helped train the Spokane Police Department SWAT team and teaches private classes. Spokane police officials only recently found out that Matthias David is a felon, convicted as Sterling Peacock in Utah in 1978 of federal wire fraud resulting from fund-raising efforts on behalf of Immanuel David. Another member of the group, Gil Hibben, who was known as Peter David, also faced federal fraud charges associated with the groupís activities "(Immanuel) David is God," Matthias David said in a recent interview, "and I know you donít believe that. "The Star of David, thatís the Lordís star," he said. "It doesnít have anything to do with the Jewish people at all. Itís the Lord, Immanuel Davidís star." He doesnít belong to a cult or a church, the karate instructor said, but a group he views as an extended family.

"Jacob David in Colorado is my brother," he said. "Iím closer to them than any family lever had." Matthias David said it was outrageous to ask if the remaining members of the group might repeat the suicides and murders that occurred in 1978. He doesnít describe those events as crimes. Matthias David was in federal prison in California when the suicides and murders occurred. One of his daughters contends, in a Spokane Superior Court affidavit filed in a 1995 child-custody case. that the group she was raised in is a "fanatical religious cult." She is now estranged from her bearded father and the group. Matthias David dismisses those allegations. "What I believe in is David and Rachel and their family," Matthias David said. "They could not be apart. When David left, they left with him. "That was their choice, and a shock to us." Jacob David, stroking his gray straggly beard, said he, too, believes his late brother-in-law, Immanuel David, is God. "We are regular Christians," he said in his living room, where photos of Matthias David hang on the wail.

"You know, people think weíre Jewish, and weíre not," he said, pointing to a gold Star of David he wears on a necklace. "We are Israelites, from the Lost Tribes of Israel," Jacob David said. "And this is Godís star." The man who would later claim to be God was born Nov. 9,1938, in Yonkers, N.Y., to a wealthy doctor and his wife. Bruce Longo was raised in his parentsí fashionable colonial house on North Broadway and attended the Episcopal Church. He graduated from Gorton High School in 1956 and joined the Marine Corps soon after. While in the Marines, friends acquainted him with beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He converted to the Mormon faith in 1958 and became an LDS youth leader and assistant Boy Scout leader. In 1960, he accepted a Mormon missionary assignment to Uruguay. "He was a very, very excited missionary," Skip Daynes, his missionary companion, recalled in 1978. Longo quickly learned Spanish and could quote the Book of Mormon from memory. Daynes said Longo was effective in recruiting new members to the Mormon Church. But he was released early from his church mission after he said he began to hear voices. He returned to Yonkers and was hospitalized for hepatitis and mental illness.

In faIl 1961, he went to Utah where be enrolled at Brigham Young University, studying Spanish and political science. By Christmas of that year, he met Margit Birgitta Ericsson, a pretty Swedish immigrant who also was attending BYU. The couple married and had three children before Longo graduated from BYU in 1965. He met regularly with other young Mormon men, including Sterling Peacock, Gil Hibben and Paul Chipman, and they became close friends. About that time, Longo told his friends that heíd had another visionĖthat he was going to become a prominent official of the Mormon Church. He wrote letters to the Mormon Church headquarters and the Israeli Knesset. Those letters are reprinted in the sectís 1996 testimonial letter. Immanuel David told the Israeli prime minister and the Knesset in 1973 that he was God. "I am the Father of Jesus Christ that you slew," the letter warned the Israeli government. "I am the only one that can deliver you. Without me you will perish." "I am the father of Israel and the blood of Israel runs through my veins," Immanuel David wrote to the Israelis. In another letter, he proclaimed to be the new president of the Mormon Church.

In a 1977 letter, Immanuel David called Mormon Church president Spencer Kimball an "evil shepherd." "Your people are perishing in their ignorance and unbelief," David wrote to the church. Church records are sealed, but LDS officials confirmed that Longo was excommunicated in June1969. But his friends, believing Longo was a prophet and charmed by his persuasive powers, stood by him. They, too, were excommunicated from the Mormon Church. They began living a communal lifestyle in Manti, Utah, deifying Immanuel David. Follower Gil Hibben taught knifemaking skills to some of the two dozen members of the group. They made a large sword for Immanuel David, who began declaring that he was God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit all in one. He vowed to "lop off thousands of heads" if needed. Police and Mormon Church security officers kept a watchful eye when the bearded, 300-pound religious leader frequently showed up with his followers at Temple Square in Salt Lake City. The group was often told to leave, but there was no violence or arrests.

In 1971, Immanuel David and his followers began to travel to Nebraska Washington, and Montana. Exmembers say Immanuel David frequently separated men from their wives and children. Sterling Peacock, who had changed his name to Matthias David, and Paul Chipman, who was Jonathan David, came to Spokane in about 1974 and opened a karate studio. They began sending the profits to support Immanuel David, his wife and their seven children. From June 1975 to January1976, Immanuel David lived in the Red Lion Inn in Missoula, while his followers worked elsewhere. Then he had a vision. He decided Matthias, Jonathan and Peter David were really archangels, and he renamed them Michael, Raphael and Gabriel, ex-followers say. Immanuel David believed the federal government was about to collapse. He promised to save the republic and become its new leader. He told his archangels to sell their karate studio in Spokane and go to Washington, D.C., to await the governmentís collapse. He left behind an unpaid $6,000 hotel bill in Missoula and returned to Utah. He gave each of his three followers a few hundred dollars, and told them to stay in Washington, D.C. But the archangels quickly ran out of money and became homeless, sleeping on sidewalk heat grates.

Their faith in Immanuel David, however, was undiminished. They called him collect every day, as he stayed at $100-a-day hotel suites with his family. Jacob David returned to his native Scandinavia, where he worked as a carpenter and roofer. He said he never lost his faith in Immanuel David. He sent regular tithing checks. Finally, after about a year, Immanuel David ordered his three archangels to return to Salt Lake City, where he said he had obtained the original tablets given to Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith. "When we got back to Salt Lake, of course, he didnít have the tablets," recalls ex-member Paul Chipman, who was known as Jonathan David. "He said he was the tablets." Matthias David grew tired of his archangel assignment in Washington, D.C., and got a job there in a lumber yard. He earned enough money to buy a motorcycle and rode it to Albuquerque, where he opened another karate studio. But by 1977, FBI agents were investigating the groupís fund-raising activities. Matthias David, indicted as Sterling Peacock, and Gil Hibben were charged with wire fraud by a federal grand jury that met in Salt Lake City. They were accused of making up phony hard-luck stories to raise money. Matthias David now says the money went to support Immanuel David.

"Actually, I just borrowed the money," Matthias David said recently in an interview in his karate studio in east Spokane. "I had no intention of ripping anybody off. I kept track of every dollar. "I really donít want all of this kind of stuff brought back up," he said. "Youíre hashing stuff thatís been gone for years and years." With the convictions of Peacock and Hibben, federal investigators were moving toward indicting Immanuel David on either tax evasion or wire fraud charges when he committed suicide. He borrowed a truck from Daynes, his former Mormon missionary partner, and drove to Emigration Canyon where he piped exhaust into the truck and killed himself. He had $5 in his pocket, and left no note. Shortly after the murders and suicides, Detective Sgt. Brent Davis said that it was the fear of jail that drove Immanuel David to take his own life. "I think he must have been aware of the wire fraud investigation and how close he was to being locked up," Davis said. "His ego just wouldnít allow him to face jail." Bruce Longo, a successful Mormon Missionary and graduate of BYU, came to believe the Mormon Church was in error. Eventually he came to believe he was God.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mathias Longo, one of the sect's current leaders, believes he is the reincarnation of Moses. He runs a Spokane matrial arts studio.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul Chipman, a former Longo "archangel", is now a born again Christian living in Utah.



Edited by - kungfoolss on December 02 2002 21:07:13

JKDChick
12/02/2002 10:07pm,
Annnndddd, yet again, it's only significant info if you can show statistical, provable, un-biased, error free mathematical probabilty and incidence tables that show the occurance of violence and lunacy in the MA community is greater than the average for the rest of the species. Anecdotal evidence can prove nothing.

I'm not saying it isn't true, by the way, that MA's in general are crazier/more violent than average. Just that this scatter-shot bullshit approach proves nothing and detracts from all claims on either side.

"I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."

Kungfoolss
12/02/2002 10:08pm,
RP athlete commits suicide

Posted: 10:19 PM (Manila Time) | April 30, 2001

By June Navarro


A 23-year-old member of the countryís pencak silat team reportedly killed himself yesterday morning after learning that his girlfriend had left him.

Police said Jerome Quimsing, 23, was found hanging from the fourth floor landing of the north tower of the Rizal Memorial Sports Complex around 2 a.m. after having a drinking spree with his roommate Andrew Cuyugan.

Cuyugan, a member of the national baseball team, said Quimsing lamented that his girlfriend has already found a new boyfriend.

After consuming nine bottles of beer, Cuyugan added Quimsing went up to the fourth floor of the tower, smoked and called her girlfriend instead of taking a rest in their quarters located at the third floor.

Quimsing was later found hanging by the neck using a belt and a skipping rope.

Pencak silat is a sport using a combination of martial arts and ballet and is popular in Indonesia.

The police, however, only succeeded in getting Quimsing's body at 1 p.m. His body was brought to the Tres Amigos Funeral Parlor in Paco a few hours later.

Quimsing, who hails from Davao City, is one of pencak silat's aspirants for the Southeast Asian Games.

Chair Carlos Tuason said the Philippine Sports Commission will shoulder all the funeral expenses. He added the PSC already notified Quimsing's relatives of his demise. --With reports from Jerome Aning and Carina Roncesvalles

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Kungfoolss
12/02/2002 10:43pm,
Court of appeals of the state of Alaska

John Holloway V. State of Alaska

No. 4605 - August 14, 2002

F. Kauvar sentenced Holloway to twenty years with five years suspended for manslaughter and one year for tampering with physical evidence. She ordered the sentences to run concurrently. Judge Kauvar placed Holloway on probation for ten years following his release from incarceration. Holloway appeals his sentence, arguing that it is excessive.

We affirm. Holloway, Dale DePue, Jr., and Shawn Aldridge met a taxi driver, Maurice Lee Smith, the evening of July 31, 1998. Smith drove the men around Fairbanks without charging them. Apparently the men took offense at something Smith said and decided to assault him. The men convinced Smith to go into the woods with them where they confronted him and began beating him. They beat Smith until he died, leaving his body in the woods. They attempted to dispose of his taxi by submerging it in the Tanana River. But the taxi was discovered the next day, partially submerged and filled with rocks.

A relative of Smith filed a missing person's report, and the police began to search for him. In the spring of 1999, a skull, bones, clothing fragments, a knife, a knife case, and papers were found in the woods. The remains were ultimately identified as Smith's. The police investigation led to Shawn Aldridge, who confessed to the homicide and implicated DePue and Holloway. When confronted by Aldridge's confession, DePue also admitted to participating in the homicide. The state charged Holloway, Aldridge, and DePue with murder in the first degree and tampering with physical evidence. Aldridge entered a plea to a reduced charge of murder in the second degree and was sentenced to twenty years of imprisonment.

DePue entered a plea to a reduced charge of manslaughter and was sentenced to twenty years with five years suspended. Holloway went to trial, charged with murder in the first degree. Both Aldridge and DePue testified against Holloway. According to their testimony, Holloway participated in the assault on Smith and, as Aldridge and DePue walked away from Smith's body, Holloway slit Smith's throat.

Holloway testified that he had been drunk most of the night of the homicide and did not remember much. He admitted to being present with DePue and Smith at the time of the assault and to seeing DePue and Aldridge assault Smith. But he stated he didnot recall assaulting Smith. He contended that he was, at most, guilty of simply not intervening or reporting the crime. The jury acquitted Holloway of first- and second-degree murder but convicted him of the lesser-included offense of manslaughter and tampering with evidence. Holloway was thirty years old at the time of sentencing. He had no prior criminal record. As a first felony offender convicted of manslaughter, Holloway faced a presumptive sentence of five years of imprisonment. Judge Kauvar found that two aggravating factors applied: that Holloway's conduct during the offense

Holloway raises several arguments concerning his sentence. He first contends that Judge Kauvar erred in finding the deliberate cruelty aggravating factor. "We have previously defined deliberate cruelty as conduct which involves gratuitously inflicted torture or violence." Judge Kauvar found that Holloway and his co-defendants lured Smith into the woods, without any provocation by Smith, and beat him to death. According to the testimony presented at trial, the defendants, who had some training in the martial arts, practiced their kicking and hitting on Smith until he was dead. These facts support a finding of deliberate cruelty.


Edited by - kungfoolss on December 02 2002 21:46:38

Kungfoolss
12/02/2002 10:59pm,
Spencer Goodman
Spencer Corey Goodman, 31, was executed by lethal injection on 18 January 2000 in Huntsville, Texas, for carjacking and murdering a 38-year-old woman.

In July 1991, Goodman, then 22, approached Cecile Ham, 38, in a store parking lot in Houston. He knocked her unconscious, pushed her into her car, and drove off. After a while, he stopped and killed Ham by breaking her neck. He then put Ham's body in the trunk and continued driving until he reached a rural area in West Texas. There, he dumped Ham's body. Goodman continued to drive Ham's car and used her credit cards throughout his travels. Goodman was aprehended five weeks later in Colorado, following a high-speed chase with police, in which he wrecked Ham's car.

Cecile Ham was the wife of Bill Ham, the manager of the rock group ZZ Top.

After his arrest, Goodman confessed to Ham's murder. In his written confession, he stated, "I had been walking for a long time and my feet hurt and I wanted some transportation." When he described how he broke Ham's neck, he wrote, "I then used martial arts and broke the lady's neck. I don't know why I did it ... I knew that she was dead when I put her in the trunk because I felt on her pulse."

Goodman was returned to Texas, where he led law enforcement officials to Ham's remains. He also made a videotaped confession that was consistent with his earlier written statement.

At his trial, Goodman admitted knocking Ham unconscious and stealing her car, but he denied breaking her neck and said that he did not intend to kill her.

Goodman had at least two prior felony convictions. He was sentenced to 2 years in prison for burglary of a building and began serving his sentence in February 1989. He was paroled after 4 months. In 1990, he was convicted of unauthorized use of a motor vehicle and sentenced to five years in prison. He served three months of that sentence from September to December 1990. (At the time, early release was common in Texas due to strict prison population caps imposed by U.S. District Judge William Wayne Justice.) He was returned to custody for a parole violation, then released again in July 1991. He murdered Cecile Ham the day after his release.

A jury convicted Hicks of capital murder in May 1992 and sentenced him to death. The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals affirmed the conviction and sentence in April 1996. All of his subsequent appeals in state and federal court were denied.

In his last statement, Goodman expressed love to his family. The lethal injection was then started. Hicks was pronounced dead at 6:22 p.m.


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rellik_yzarc
12/02/2002 11:34pm,
"Pencak silat is a sport using a combination of martial arts and ballet and is popular in Indonesia"

funniest **** i heard in mcdojo

"said and done"

Kungfoolss
12/03/2002 2:47am,
interesting. i must be lucky to have trained with about 150 people and not one mass murderer.


Well, we have only your word to go on, now don't we?

Besides, it is only a matter of perspective my friend. From my vantage point, you've potentially murdered 150 naive students by imparting life-endangering training, completely ignoring the realities of combat. A stylist such as yourself, only needs to look into a mirror to see a mass murderer being reflected back at you.

In any event, without a biographical history of each student, how can you state this with any degree of certainty? What you really mean to say, is that they haven't murdered anyone up to this point. My advice is to give it a few years, maybe one of them will surprise you. The fact you aren't able to comprehend any of this, speaks volumes of your sad talents as an instructor.

You have my pity

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Deadpan Scientist
12/03/2002 3:01am,
Fool, how about you reply to JKDChick?

Karate Fighter
12/03/2002 3:10am,
I have come to the conclusion that Kungfoos is Not a normal person. Then again, who is? You will burn in hell Kungfoos and you have embraced the dark side of the force. Once you follow down that road, you cannot turn back. You are evil Kungfoos, evil I tell you. jk Pretty funny stuff huh.



nuff said*

Varkin
12/03/2002 3:15am,
I'd have to agree with JDK chick. Please show us some statistics or some real reasearch.

How is this any different then the people who pick up guns and kill people? I'm pretty sure that theres more of those then any MA related killings.

Hell, I bet mullets make you a mass murderer too! Actually, I'm pretty sure about this one.. especially the ones with molester mustaches! :D

Kungfoolss
12/03/2002 3:24am,
When Cross-dressing martial artist's ATTACK!!!

http://www.sptimes.com/News/92599/Pasco/Cross_dressing_man_se.shtml

Cross-dressing man sentenced for battery
A judge says the man convicted of battery, who is awaiting a sex change, could face harsh treatment in state prison.

By GEOFF DOUGHERTY

© St. Petersburg Times, published September 25, 1999


------------------------------------------------


NEW PORT RICHEY -- Patrick Hagan shuffled off to serve his 21/2-year state prison sentence wearing a black-and-pink print dress and a matching pink blouse. But before he held out his wrists to accept a bailiff's handcuffs, the 6-foot-3, 280-pound Hagan asked for a moment to remove his jewelry. Off came the earrings and the rings. Hagan struggled with his gold necklace, and a bailiff daintily helped him undo the clasp.


Patrick Hagan was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in prison.
--------------------------------

And then the bailiff tightened the cuffs around Hagan's wrists and escorted him toward the beginning of what is likely to be a particularly harsh prison term. Appraising Hagan's appearance before imposing the sentence Friday morning, Circuit Judge Stanley Mills acknowledged that. "It's not a pretty picture in the state prison system," Mills told Hagan, a cross-dresser who is awaiting sex-change surgery.

Hagan was convicted in July of punching a fellow bar patron in the mouth. The victim, 40-year-old Cheryl Partsch, lost five teeth and could end up paying as much as $60,000 in medical bills. A jury found Hagan guilty of misdemeanor battery, punishable by up to a year in jail. But Hagan was on probation from a felony illegal dumping conviction at the time, and the recent conviction also meant he had violated his probation, which can be punished with state prison time.


Cheryl Partsch, who was punched by Hagan, could end up paying as much as $60,000 in medical bills.

-------------------------------------------

The battery occurred in November 1997 at BT's, a Port Richey bar frequented by cross-dressers. Hagan was accused of battering Partsch because she questioned his presence in the women's restroom. Mills heard testimony in Hagan's sentencing one day late last month and on Friday. Defense lawyer Robert Attridge argued a prison sentence would be especially difficult for Hagan, given the level of violence in Department of Corrections facilities and the hostility to which cross-dressers often are subjected.

Hagan took the stand to say he punched Partsch in self-defense after she kicked open the door to the bathroom stall he was in. "I am very sorry this woman got her faced punched," Hagan said. "What happened was a hate crime. I was only defending myself. I am not a violent person." However, prosecutor Scott Andringa argued Hagan deserved a stiff prison sentence because of his lengthy criminal record, including convictions for burglary, armed robbery, grand theft and dealing in stolen property.

Hagan, a former septic-truck driver and martial arts expert, said he has mellowed since taking hormones in preparation for surgery. "My emotions and behavior have completely changed since I've gone through my sex change," he said. "Give me the benefit of the doubt." Friends of Hagan told Mills that the incident at BT's was an aberration. "She's the kind of person you can call at midnight and say, "My water heater sprung a leak,' and she'd be over to fix it," said Kerry Algiere, who works as a carrier for the St. Petersburg Times.

Hagan's probation officer, Josephine Roberts, testified that she didn't think he should go to prison. "I had no problem with him," Roberts said. "He was one of my better probationers." Attridge tried to arrange a sentence that would have allowed Hagan to remain free, working to pay restitution for Partsch's medical bills. But Andringa said Partsch wasn't interested. "She would rather see him incarcerated," Andringa said.

Mills rejected Hagan's self-defense argument. Despite the testimony of Hagan's friends, Mills said he had to follow state guidelines that called for a prison sentence. However, Mills said he would recommend that corrections officials take Hagan's sex-change situation into account when deciding what type of prison to put him in. "It's going to be a difficult situation, Mr. Hagan," Mills said before ending the hearing.

Kungfoolss
12/03/2002 3:30am,
Fool, how about you reply to JKDChick?



Why should I waste my time? From what I've read of her comments, she's just some dumb chick.

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Kungfoolss
12/03/2002 3:41am,
I have come to the conclusion that Kungfoos is Not a normal person. Then again, who is? You will burn in hell Kungfoos and you have embraced the dark side of the force. Once you follow down that road, you cannot turn back. You are evil Kungfoos, evil I tell you. jk Pretty funny stuff huh.


KK, I seem to get a lot of that sort of thing from all those mind-warped religious zealots out there. I think there was some snot-nosed kid (talking about weights) earlier threatening me with eternal damnation. (Chuckling) It's comforting to see how such arrogance will send those individuals exactly to the same place they wish upon others.

It's a shame isn't it, that an atheist would exercise a greater understanding of the tenets of religion than the supposed "believer" himself. (Sighs)

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Deadpan Scientist
12/03/2002 4:11am,
Why waste your time? I think it'd be a good way to prove that MA are the crazy people you think they are. That is.. unless you don't have the knowledge and education necessary to compile the figures that would prove your case once and for all (you could even publish it in a peer reviewed journal, just to be sure)

Karate Boxer
12/03/2002 8:45am,
There is a bad egg in every group. Thats my motto. It should be like a law or something like that watchamacallit Murphy's law or something. Yeah thats it.





nuff said*

Karate Fighter
12/03/2002 10:24am,
Yeah, like you should know karate boxer. I'll be seeing you 3rd period buddy.



nuff said*