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goodlun
6/26/2015 1:38pm,
Sorry its a bit of a click bait head line.
But I thought the video was interesting once you get past the Gracie marketing BS.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HncwGDTNsxo

BKR
6/26/2015 1:44pm,
I watched that quite some time ago. I still think it's kind of silly.

Replace the guy in black with a 6'4" muscled up guy on meth, whose been to prison, and knows he is going back if he can't get away, and see what happens.

Or even somebody who is seriously fighting.

And I'm not making up the example, either, it happened here last year in a muddy farm field just off the highway.

slamdunc
6/26/2015 2:21pm,
Replace the guy in black with a 6'4" muscled up guy on meth, whose been to prison, and knows he is going back if he can't get away, and see what happens.

Or even somebody who is seriously fighting.You are correct, but the newer Gracie stuff is much better that anything law enforcement had before. Some academies have made-up ****, some use 'approved' systems such as PPCT or L.O.C.K.U.P. and these aren't nearly as effective. Many of the systems I have seen and fielded over the years have little, if anything for when you go to the ground, and the majority of them would never initiate a take-down. It looks like they are at least headed in the right direction.

A good many officers working the streets today only qualify with their weapon when required by the department and do nothing on their own to maintain any level of proficiency.

A lot of officers working the streets do not do anything to stay physically fit and surely don't do anything more than what is required of them when it comes to defensive tactics, subject control and tactical handcuffing scenarios.

On a personal note, I want to have as many tools as I can when SHTF and just as important, I work to ensure that I have the stamina so I don't gas-out in the first 30 seconds.

3moose1
6/26/2015 2:25pm,
Ok, Lets talk about a few things:

First off, who the **** are the gracies to teach weapon retention? Don't fucking kid yourselves, you're goddamn aggressive cuddlers. Have any of you actually held an actual firearm? Or dealt with someone seriously trying to take it away as if their life depended on it? **** you, you over reaching quacks.

Secondly, mma fighter vs two "cops". So I'm lead to believe that two police officers are going to randomly tackle and attempt to submit a random guy on the street, before he presents a weapon?

Thirdly, OK "cop" why the **** did you toss the knife away willy fucking nilly? Very responsible. Have fun trying to find that when it comes time to collect evidence. Hope a kid didn't pick it up, or it hit one of the bystanders that would gather around to watch two cops attack a random dude.

Fourthly, why the **** are you teaching cops submissions and chokes? That's not how it works. THAT'S NOT HOW ANY OF IT FUCKING WORKS YOU MONOPOLIZING, SENSATIONALIST BRAZILLIAN PUBIC PARASITES.


So, ya know, that's my take on this, "Video"

3moose1
6/26/2015 2:28pm,
You are correct, but the newer Gracie stuff is much better that anything law enforcement had before. Some academies have made-up ****, some use 'approved' systems such as PPCT or L.O.C.K.U.P. and these aren't nearly as effective. Many of the systems I have seen and fielded over the years have little, if anything for when you go to the ground, and the majority of them would never initiate a take-down. It looks like they are at least headed in the right direction.

A good many officers working the streets today only qualify with their weapon when required by the department and do nothing on their own to maintain any level of proficiency.

A lot of officers working the streets do not do anything to stay physically fit and surely don't do anything more than what is required of them when it comes to defensive tactics, subject control and tactical handcuffing scenarios.

On a personal note, I want to have as many tools as I can when SHTF and just as important, I work to ensure that I have the stamina so I don't gas-out in the first 30 seconds.

"better" still doesn't mean good. Or good enough.

****, when I was 13, a handjob was better then dry humping my girlfriend wearing sweatpants, but it still wasn't good enough.

side note: I went to a really slutty high school.

BKR
6/26/2015 2:31pm,
You are correct, but the newer Gracie stuff is much better that anything law enforcement had before. Some academies have made-up ****, some use 'approved' systems such as PPCT or L.O.C.K.U.P. and these aren't nearly as effective. Many of the systems I have seen and fielded over the years have little, if anything for when you go to the ground, and the majority of them would never initiate a take-down. It looks like they are at least headed in the right direction.

A good many officers working the streets today only qualify with their weapon when required by the department and do nothing on their own to maintain any level of proficiency.

A lot of officers working the streets do not do anything to stay physically fit and surely don't do anything more than what is required of them when it comes to defensive tactics, subject control and tactical handcuffing scenarios.

On a personal note, I want to have as many tools as I can when SHTF and just as important, I work to ensure that I have the stamina so I don't gas-out in the first 30 seconds.

I agree about the not staying in shape or continuing training thing for sure. I would think SOME agencies would require "continuing education" of some sort. I do see quite a few cops around here who go to the gym on a regular basis.

What I see is the officers/deputies get "on the job training". Plus, it helps a lot if you are a big man to start with, lift weights at least.

The video didn't address using impact weapons, TASER, Pepper spray, etc., either.

I hope it gets better for you guys in terms of the level and availability of H2H training.

goodlun
6/26/2015 2:48pm,
Look I don't care what you all say that **** looks like it would be a fun class.

On another note, um did they just tackle the fucking guy unprovoked?
Hello Cop Block and Youtube if that was a real encounter.

BKR
6/26/2015 3:19pm,
Look I don't care what you all say that **** looks like it would be a fun class.

On another note, um did they just tackle the fucking guy unprovoked?
Hello Cop Block and Youtube if that was a real encounter.

It's all fun unless you have to do it or may have to do it seriously.

Who knows, like you said, click bait. Which to me says a lot about them...

slamdunc
6/26/2015 3:24pm,
I agree about the not staying in shape or continuing training thing for sure. I would think SOME agencies would require "continuing education" of some sort.Some agencies do, many do not and that is one of the huge problems. Most lawsuits against agencies are 'Failure To Train' or 'Failure To Supervise' flavored and have language such as "Chief Snuffy either knew or should have known that this action / lack of action would cause XYZ, etc.


I do see quite a few cops around here who go to the gym on a regular basis.If it were up to me (he he he) you'd see them all in the gym for at least an hour a day.


What I see is the officers/deputies get "on the job training". Plus, it helps a lot if you are a big man to start with, lift weights at least.Some states require xx hours of training per year, some agencies actually see the need AND have the budget for it. The problem with the majority of officers who work in my county is that if we aren't getting some kind of o/t pay for it or you aren't blowing **** up, they aren't interested. The problem with the administrators is that unless the state mandates it or Homeland Security is reimbursing for it, they will actually hide the training bulletins.
IMHO, it is a two-fold problem which includes the administration AND the rank-and-file.


The video didn't address using impact weapons, TASER, Pepper spray, etc., either.In theory, those are different blocks of instruction and from where I stand, use of force training is one of the most neglected. The state (Illinois) now 'recommends' that firearms instructors do an update as they are conducting their ANNUAL (yes, only once a year lol) firearms qualification.

This Sunday morning, I am going to the range to qualify about 40 officers. There is no way I could begin to cover what needs to be covered in the six hours I am allotted to get everyone their mandatory piece of paper. I hate it that it is this way, but it is.


I hope it gets better for you guys in terms of the level and availability of H2H training.It has gotten better in some ways and I hope it continues, but between budgets and charlatans selling the proverbial snake-oil for training systems, you never know.

BKR
6/26/2015 4:05pm,
Some agencies do, many do not and that is one of the huge problems. Most lawsuits against agencies are 'Failure To Train' or 'Failure To Supervise' flavored and have language such as "Chief Snuffy either knew or should have known that this action / lack of action would cause XYZ, etc.

That would seem to be the easiest path in most cases.


If it were up to me (he he he) you'd see them all in the gym for at least an hour a day.

Funny, I've often thought the same "if I were in charge" as sheriff or COP. Something like having to pass the POST fitness requirements (which are minimal) once a year or every quarter (LOL!).


Some states require xx hours of training per year, some agencies actually see the need AND have the budget for it. The problem with the majority of officers who work in my county is that if we aren't getting some kind of o/t pay for it or you aren't blowing **** up, they aren't interested. The problem with the administrators is that unless the state mandates it or Homeland Security is reimbursing for it, they will actually hide the training bulletins.
IMHO, it is a two-fold problem which includes the administration AND the rank-and-file.

Money and motivation, isn't that unusual?


In theory, those are different blocks of instruction and from where I stand, use of force training is one of the most neglected. The state (Illinois) now 'recommends' that firearms instructors do an update as they are conducting their ANNUAL (yes, only once a year lol) firearms qualification.

Use of force training is critical...judging from event in the news lately, it's not worked on enough.


This Sunday morning, I am going to the range to qualify about 40 officers. There is no way I could begin to cover what needs to be covered in the six hours I am allotted to get everyone their mandatory piece of paper. I hate it that it is this way, but it is.

Make sure to record all the scores correctly, that is what you are there for !


It has gotten better in some ways and I hope it continues, but between budgets and charlatans selling the proverbial snake-oil for training systems, you never know.

One of my favorites was a blue belt teaching the "ground fighting" class. No LEO training, just not very good BJJ (In my "judo" opinion).

Yep, first thing to do was "establish closed guard"...

gregaquaman
6/26/2015 9:43pm,
A couple of spazzy guys can generally overcome an athletic guy if they work together.

I mostly submission wrestle bad guys. Even the 6 4 methy ones. And it is still high percentage.

Like dogs on a pig.

BKR
6/29/2015 11:57am,
A couple of spazzy guys can generally overcome an athletic guy if they work together.

I mostly submission wrestle bad guys. Even the 6 4 methy ones. And it is still high percentage.

Like dogs on a pig.

Yep, it's just that easy.