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ghost55
4/02/2015 3:30pm,
I stumbled upon this today:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H5uR0yw6Xw

I honestly think that this chunner saw some videos of Hung Ga forms and decided it would be cool to make the chun more like that, without actually understanding what makes Hung Ga a non-**** style.

BKR
4/02/2015 3:48pm,
I stumbled upon this today:


https://youtube.com/1H5uR0yw6Xw

I honestly think that this chunner saw some videos of Hung Ga forms and decided it would be cool to make the chun more like that, without actually understanding what makes Hung Ga a non-**** style.

404 not found...

Permalost
4/02/2015 4:00pm,
The least craptastic chun I've seen in person looked a lot like 2 person linebacker drills, where 2 students would try to push each other around. Very push-hands-ish, and it seemed like they were actually trying to position themselves off the centerline, the way you see people do in pummeling drills, not trying to keep their centerline pointed right at the opponent. No rigid upright extended palms stance, no chain punches, just constantly applying pressure. If I didn't know better, I'd say it wasn't wing chun at all (and I'll bet plenty of purist chunners would make that point). Good or bad, though, it certainly wasn't "standard wing chun" where you stand around arm punching the air softly.

ghost55
4/02/2015 4:13pm,
404 not found...

I fixed it.

BackFistMonkey
4/02/2015 4:50pm,
More Chun flavored piles of ****. When are Chunners going to realize they can't strike using Wing Chun ? I mean **** 4 realz yo, they have been trying this crap for 85 years and still only the most hard working and athletic students can make it work under pressure... and then it just looks like shitty kickboxing with no signs of trapping or movements from their dummy training and 2 person drills.

Chili Pepper
4/02/2015 5:46pm,
I honestly think that this chunner saw some videos of Hung Ga forms and decided it would be cool to make the chun more like that, without actually understanding what makes Hung Ga a non-**** style.

I agreed with a lot of the points he was making, but I don't think those points are reflected in what he and his students were demonstrating. Looked very robot dance to me.

W. Rabbit
4/02/2015 8:07pm,
I honestly think that this chunner saw some videos of Hung Ga forms and decided it would be cool to make the chun more like that, without actually understanding what makes Hung Ga a non-**** style.

Hung ga practically contains the entire Wing Chun system. The two systems share a common ancestry. This is why I'm hard on Wing Chun, they need better standards and they could definitely be reminded a few things about their legacy from the other southern styles.

Hung Kuen may have slightly better standards but they too need to be kept honest. Hung ga can be practiced poorly and very poorly, especially when people focus on learning new material instead of training fundamentals.

There are Hung ga students mastering weapons right now around the world who I believe could not fight with their skills to save their lives. My standards are higher than theirs.

Robotic, yes. Also, the taking of eyes off opponent over and over, does anybody else notice that? A sign the contact training is lacking, imo...I think in real san da he'd get his ass knocked out. What a terrible habit.

Chili Pepper
4/03/2015 9:09am,
Robotic, yes. Also, the taking of eyes off opponent over and over, does anybody else notice that? A sign the contact training is lacking, imo...I think in real san da he'd get his ass knocked out. What a terrible habit.

The accompanying video, Women of Wing Chun, is even more glaring. How sad that they come looking for self-defence and get this instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_1979362873&feature=iv&src_vid=1H5uR0yw6Xw&v=5rsYdyMTh1c

W. Rabbit
4/03/2015 9:48am,
Let's face it the level of contact is a tiny bit of a step up from your run-of-the-mill Wing Chun. There is a little more effort being put in this school, a little more contact, but not by a whole lot imo.

They're training some bridging concepts and some takedowns but it's all abbreviated, reset. It's hard to call it "alive", "semi-dead" is a better word maybe. Or Undead, like flow-jitsu...I like that term.

Seeing "attackers" freeze in their tracks is red flag #1.

Red flag #2 is most of all, absolutely zero attackers are going to attack any of these women with Wing Chun. They'll be tackled to the ground while trying to trap/bridge etc, because they are not learning bridging or trapping as a transition, they're stuck on it. You can for instance, bridge while sprawling. No sprawling here, is there...

Red flag #3 is the number of people training (first vid). You can't train realistically with that many people in one room, close together. Alive san da requires way more space. BUT the sardine can approach here is perfect for semi-dead Wing Chun.

Red Flag #0 is that guy is calling himself "Grandmaster". hoo boy.

But forget the Chunnery for a moment, look what I found in that channel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdQt7OZwZw

BKR
4/03/2015 11:45am,
Let's face it the level of contact is a tiny bit of a step up from your run-of-the-mill Wing Chun. There is a little more effort being put in this school, a little more contact, but not by a whole lot imo.

They're training some bridging concepts and some takedowns but it's all abbreviated, reset. It's hard to call it "alive", "semi-dead" is a better word maybe. Or Undead, like flow-jitsu...I like that term.

Seeing "attackers" freeze in their tracks is red flag #1.

Red flag #2 is most of all, absolutely zero attackers are going to attack any of these women with Wing Chun. They'll be tackled to the ground while trying to trap/bridge etc, because they are not learning bridging or trapping as a transition, they're stuck on it. You can for instance, bridge while sprawling. No sprawling here, is there...

Red flag #3 is the number of people training (first vid). You can't train realistically with that many people in one room, close together. Alive san da requires way more space. BUT the sardine can approach here is perfect for semi-dead Wing Chun.

Red Flag #0 is that guy is calling himself "Grandmaster". hoo boy.

But forget the Chunnery for a moment, look what I found in that channel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDdQt7OZwZw

Good point about being attacked by the Chun...I was thinking the same thing. Of course, we've discussed this situation/idea before.

The level of physical contact those women need to experience in order to be able to physically and psychologically deal with a real attack by a more aggressive, stronger, most likely male, isn't going to happen without some serious grappling, both standing and on the ground.

Ming Loyalist
4/03/2015 2:49pm,
Hung ga practically contains the entire Wing Chun system. The two systems share a common ancestry. This is why I'm hard on Wing Chun, they need better standards and they could definitely be reminded a few things about their legacy from the other southern styles.

to be clear there are no chain punches in HG, and i have never seen a hung ga sifu spend more than a couple of minutes talking geometry (we discuss angles of attack/defense, sure but nothing like the 30+ minutes of talking using a blackboard **** that we see with the chun.) trapping is covered but my school did a lot of sanda so we weren't dumb enough to think we would be trapping against people that knew how to punch.

so yeah, a lot of the material is covered in both arts, just in a much more functional way in a decent hung ga school.


Hung Kuen may have slightly better standards but they too need to be kept honest. Hung ga can be practiced poorly and very poorly, especially when people focus on learning new material instead of training fundamentals.

There are Hung ga students mastering weapons right now around the world who I believe could not fight with their skills to save their lives. My standards are higher than theirs.

i think that hung ga gets an easier time than it should around here, because of a few posters who aren't deluded and have hung ga backgrounds. i have seen a *lot* more bad hung ga than good (even within my own family.) the ratio of fighting to non-fighting schools may be slightly better when comparing hung ga to other kung fu, but not by a lot.

W. Rabbit
4/03/2015 3:43pm,
to be clear there are no chain punches in HG, and i have never seen a hung ga sifu spend more than a couple of minutes talking geometry (we discuss angles of attack/defense, sure but nothing like the 30+ minutes of talking using a blackboard **** that we see with the chun.) trapping is covered but my school did a lot of sanda so we weren't dumb enough to think we would be trapping against people that knew how to punch.

so yeah, a lot of the material is covered in both arts, just in a much more functional way in a decent hung ga school.


A lot of it is based on the southern animal they shares, so I think Snake and Crane are where most of the overlap is. Obviously there is no one canonical "snake" or "crane" there are myriads of variations, but I sometimes see Chun as a form of Five Animal abuse. I have a theory on why this is, but I'll bore you with that another day..

The big practical difference I notice is in how these are applied in training. I would say Hung ga takes a far more "mobile" approach to those animal styles, and that might be because of how they fit into the larger framework of footwork, etc. Crane and Snake are not limited to or meant to be in Adduction stances, so with more dynamic footwork, you break up what seems to hold a lot of Chunners in their "rigidness".

So I think the other animal methods, elements, etc give Hung ga more depth so less chance of getting stuck in patterns. However, I think you and I agree this can happen more and more when any of the training is left half-completed (by that I mean a lack of contact training). And a lot of it is.

Sometimes I just want to take a Chunner and teach them some basic stepping, footwork. They focus so much on their hands Something a famous Chinese general once said about styles containing the upper but not the lower, and vice versa...we just referenced him in another thread.



i think that hung ga gets an easier time than it should around here, because of a few posters who aren't deluded and have hung ga backgrounds. i have seen a *lot* more bad hung ga than good (even within my own family.) the ratio of fighting to non-fighting schools may be slightly better when comparing hung ga to other kung fu, but not by a lot.

I think you and I could agree that good Hung ga is difficult to develop, not because of the material, but because of the commitment required especially the fight training. It's so simple, it's stupid but people will spend decades training a CMA, without 5m under real siege.

If you put the time and effort in, you can get Hung ga strong, or even become a decent teacher of some parts, but never ever train to fight.

If you put time and effort into applying Hung ga to fight training AND all that stuff, guess what, you might actually learn fighting kung fu.