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bluedevilboy76
3/16/2014 9:29pm,
In the "street" anyone on the ground grappling for too long is going to get a headful of boot.

It is Fake
3/16/2014 9:38pm,
In the "street" anyone on the ground grappling for too long is going to get a headful of boot.
Since this is (was) MABS I'm moving it to YMAS. Weird place to decloak from lurking.
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=101789

goodlun
3/16/2014 9:52pm,
In the "street" anyone on the ground grappling for too long is going to get a headful of boot.

I am willing to bet you, that I can find more videos of people ground fighting in the "street" that don't end with a boot to the head than you can find of videos of ground fights ending with one.

It is Fake
3/16/2014 10:02pm,
I am willing to bet you, that I can find more videos of people ground fighting in the "street" that don't end with a boot to the head than you can find of videos of ground fights ending with one. This statement is hilarious and you don't even know why.

DKJr
3/16/2014 10:20pm,
Odds are if you're the better grappler you're the one putting boot-to-head in any street situation.

Not to mention the superior grappler is more likely going to dictate when to disengage/where the fight takes place.

bluedevilboy76
3/16/2014 11:13pm,
I am willing to bet you, that I can find more videos of people ground fighting in the "street" that don't end with a boot to the head than you can find of videos of ground fights ending with one.

Wait: are you operating under the assumption that all fights on the street don't exist unless there is video evidence of it? Are you operating under the assumption that there is only ever going to be one person fighting you?

All notions that the mount is a superior position will disappear when the other people with whoever you are grappling soccer kick your head and proceed to stomp the everloving snot out of you as he picks himself up and readies the car for a getaway. You would consider yourself lucky if you wake up and remember your name, much less anything about bjj that you've learned in the last year or two.

Seriously: don't confuse fitness and sport fighting with the potential for violence on the street. Your world (of the mat/tournament/ring) has training and rules that KEEP you from hurting each other too badly. The only limiter for street violence is how well-planned the attack on you is.

Don't take this as a knock on grappling or bjj specifically. Some of the toughest guys I know are bjj players and grapplers. It's a valuable skillset.

XXIV
3/16/2014 11:25pm,
I have never been bequeathed a boot to the head, but one day... maybe one day

DKJr
3/16/2014 11:31pm,
Wait: are you operating under the assumption that all fights on the street don't exist unless there is video evidence of it? Are you operating under the assumption that there is only ever going to be one person fighting you?

All notions that the mount is a superior position will disappear when the other people with whoever you are grappling soccer kick your head and proceed to stomp the everloving snot out of you as he picks himself up and readies the car for a getaway. You would consider yourself lucky if you wake up and remember your name, much less anything about bjj that you've learned in the last year or two.

Seriously: don't confuse fitness and sport fighting with the potential for violence on the street. Your world (of the mat/tournament/ring) has training and rules that KEEP you from hurting each other too badly. The only limiter for street violence is how well-planned the attack on you is.

Don't take this as a knock on grappling or bjj specifically. Some of the toughest guys I know are bjj players and grapplers. It's a valuable skillset.

Yes we get it, don't have a false sense of security when it comes to your skills. However...

1) Why do YOU assume I or anyone else apparently, doesn't have any friends? These contrived scenarios are always ending with the grappler as the one getting kicked in the head. So this is an easy fix, have friends that can fight and don't go to danger prone places without them. This way it's you who is slamming people to the ground and then kicking them in the head.

2) "Your world..." implying that your training is "street ready". Yeah...

3) Fights are won by the dude who has a better combination of toughness, skills, physical traits, heart, and luck. Training a combat sport with hard sparring under a limited rule set is better than jerking yourself off to ways you'd fight in the "street". Just train hard to be well rounded and you'll destroy 9/10 of people who want to fight and you'll be prepared wherever the fight happens.

goodlun
3/16/2014 11:39pm,
Wait: are you operating under the assumption that all fights on the street don't exist unless there is video evidence of it?
Your the 2nd idiot in recent days that have made the same mistake about a sample size and all.
I know fights happen away from cameras, I also know especially now plenty of fights in the street happen in front of a camera. Their is no special properties of the fights that happen in front of a camera compared to the fights that don't to greatly effect the sampling.



Are you operating under the assumption that there is only ever going to be one person fighting you?
Nope, but I do know that the multiple opponents argument is tired and worn out.
Most street fights I have seen are one on one or multiples vs multiples.
However more importantly is this concept you think you can honestly stay standing against multiple opponents that I find cute.
Or that you actually stood a chance to begin with.



All notions that the mount is a superior position
Superior is a relative thing. It is superior to being on the bottom especially in a multi-opponent encounter.
It is certainly a superior position if you are going to be on the ground which once again is a very likely out come if you are dealing with a bunch of people trying to knock you down.



will disappear when the other people with whoever you are grappling soccer kick your head and proceed to stomp the everloving snot out of you as he picks himself up and readies the car for a getaway. You would consider yourself lucky if you wake up and remember your name, much less anything about bjj that you've learned in the last year or two.
I much rather be soccer kicked in the head while in mount than while lying flat out on my back because I had no idea of how to handle myself on the ground.



Seriously: don't confuse fitness and sport fighting with the potential for violence on the street. Your world (of the mat/tournament/ring) has training and rules that KEEP you from hurting each other too badly.
Yes I am well aware of the rules, I am well aware of what they protect and how they protect it. I am also believe or not quite capable of ignoring the rules. Yeah really its that easy as simply not following them.
I am very capable of gouging you in your eyes or ripping your nut sack off if I have to. I can break your limbs or choke you to death. Common sense and street smarts don't disappear because I train in a manner where I have to be careful to NOT hurt my training partner.



The only limiter for street violence is how well-planned the attack on you is.

More important is how to deal with being put into a bad situation and to come back from it. Being put on the ground is a bad situation. Being able to go from that bad situation to a better situation is what learning ground fighting is all about. So if my opponent does have a well planned attack I still have a chance. Especially if I didn't see it coming which of course is how most fights start with a sucker situation.



Don't take this as a knock on grappling or bjj specifically. Some of the toughest guys I know are bjj players and grapplers. It's a valuable skillset.
Your right it is a valuable skill set. One that anyone whom is actually worried about being attacked would be foolish to do without.

goodlun
3/16/2014 11:41pm,
1) Why do YOU assume I or anyone else apparently, doesn't have any friends? These contrived scenarios are always ending with the grappler as the one getting kicked in the head. So this is an easy fix, have friends that can fight and don't go to danger prone places without them. This way it's you who is slamming people to the ground and then kicking them in the head.


This one always makes me laugh. Outside of childhood friends most of my friends come from doing BJJ. It is one hell of a bonding experience and those are the people I am most likely to be out and about with if I where to get myself into any trouble.
In other word not when I go out I go out with friends but my friends are rather prepared for such an encounter.
Except at work of course at work I just have an armed guard with me.

bluedevilboy76
3/16/2014 11:46pm,
Yes we get it, don't have a false sense of security when it comes to your skills. However...

1) Why do YOU assume I or anyone else apparently, doesn't have any friends? These contrived scenarios are always ending with the grappler the one getting kicked in the head. So this is an easy fix, have friends that can fight and don't go to danger prone places without them. This way it's you who is slamming people to the ground and then kicking them in the head.

2) "Your world..." implying that your training is "street ready". Yeah...

3) Fights are won by the dude who has a better combination of toughness, skills, physical traits, heart, and luck. Training a combat sport with hard sparring under a limited rule set is better than jerking yourself off to ways you'd fight in the "street". Just train hard to be well rounded and you'll destroy 9/10 of people who want to fight and you'll be prepared wherever the fight happens.

1) So are you arguing that the danger of going to the ground is ameliorated by having your friends with you? Your scenario of having friends who can fight and only going to danger-prone areas while with them is what makes it contrived. If you are actively seeking out danger prone places, you are contriving a scenario. The origin of this thread is actually a critique of anti-grappling techniques presented by Luke Holloway.

2) Please read my post again. You're projecting your own biases a little too far. Careful reading might help with that.

3) While I agree with you up to a point, enthusiasm and effort are no guarantee of success.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

ChenPengFi
3/16/2014 11:58pm,
... The origin of this thread is actually a critique of anti-grappling techniques presented by Luke Holloway.




Is that supposed to be some sort of validation?

DKJr
3/17/2014 12:02am,
1) So are you arguing that the danger of going to the ground is ameliorated by having your friends with you? Your scenario of having friends who can fight and only going to danger-prone areas while with them is what makes it contrived. If you are actively seeking out danger prone places, you are contriving a scenario. The origin of this thread is actually a critique of anti-grappling techniques presented by Luke Holloway.

2) Please read my post again. You're projecting your own biases a little too far. Careful reading might help with that.

3) While I agree with you up to a point, enthusiasm and effort are no guarantee of success.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

1) I'm arguing that you're making up loaded scenarios that puts grapplers (or anyone) in a no-win situation. It's the proverbial Kobyashi-Maru. It's like if I said "Har har Kali doesn't work when faced with 3+ broadsword wielding attackers." It in no way invalidates the successful attributes of Kali or BJJ or whatever.

2) Nobody is claiming BJJ or grappling is making you a street ready wizard, you can stop knocking over the strawman.

3) That's nice.

cualltaigh
3/17/2014 12:15am,
1) So are you arguing that the danger of going to the ground is ameliorated by having your friends with you?

According to you, the danger of going to the ground is that:

the other people with whoever you are grappling soccer kick your head

As it stands, having your own people to prevent that from happening would indeed ameliorate it.


Your scenario of having friends who can fight and only going to danger-prone areas while with them is what makes it contrived.

Said the guy who's argument included the person you were fighting escaping to a getaway car...


The origin of this thread is actually a critique of anti-grappling techniques presented by Luke Holloway.


And yet you are troping out arguments against grappling in general instead of the shitty techniques of Mr. Holloway. Unless of course it's your argument that Luke's crappling was so bad that it automatically rendered thousands of years of martial arts technique and development invalid?

DKJr
3/17/2014 12:18am,
As it stands, having your own people to prevent that from happening would indeed ameliorate it.


To be fair you have to have friends at all before you can have friends that can fight.

bluedevilboy76
3/17/2014 12:20am,
Is that supposed to be some sort of validation?

Nope. Just a statement of fact. This thread has now turned into something else.