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View Full Version : And now for some hilariously bad kung fu instruction...



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ghost55
3/07/2014 5:24am,
Well I was looking at random videos on youtube because insomnia, and I cam across these gems.

First, we have Combat Tai Chi. This video gives such advice as blocking snap kicks with your forearm (a great way to have your arm broken) and dropping your head really low in the name of pushing someone in the chest (a great way to take a knee to the face).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J45xOW9-CXI


I actually want dale to comment on his "Iron Bone" Kung Fu. It looks nothing like Dale's videos (in a bad way), and he makes some claims about how his training can heal old people with incredibly weak bones improve their bone strength. My understanding was that if you have osteoporosis or something similar, martial arts of any kind are a really, really bad idea, especially ones that involve hitting hard objects repeatedly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUaYQEJQL7A

Cake of Doom
3/07/2014 5:38am,
I notice that his boards have cuts in them. Not sure if thats just for dramatic sound effects but surely that would dampen the strike and make the exercise less effective?

ghost55
3/07/2014 5:49am,
BUT IT SOUNDS COOL.

Cake of Doom
3/07/2014 6:15am,
So does Radiohead, when you first here them.

Ice Hole
3/07/2014 7:19am,
That is Jake Mace. What a rabbit hole you've discovered...read on.

Shaolin Do rears its ugly head, yet again.

http://18chambers.blogspot.com/2013/08/fading-smoke-broken-mirrors-open-letter.html

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121569

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115628

http://i.imgur.com/2OqRCRb.jpg

baby_cart
3/07/2014 7:25am,
I actually want dale to comment on his "Iron Bone" Kung Fu. It looks nothing like Dale's videos (in a bad way), and he makes some claims about how his training can heal old people with incredibly weak bones improve their bone strength. My understanding was that if you have osteoporosis or something similar, martial arts of any kind are a really, really bad idea, especially ones that involve hitting hard objects repeatedly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUaYQEJQL7A


Hell, if only he focused on turning boners into iron then he'd be rich, 'cause there'll be no need for pharmaceuticals...

It is Fake
3/07/2014 11:26am,
I know him. Yep, he's a Mcdojo Instructor who learned some made up forms from GrandMaster The. He also trains withh BJJ instructors and has Muay Thai people come in to help.

So, while his kung fu origin is highly suspect, he isn't even in the realm of hilariously bad.
I notice that his boards have cuts in them. Not sure if thats just for dramatic sound effects but surely that would dampen the strike and make the exercise less effective?
Yes, to dampen the damgae as you graduate up to harder material. Nope, it doesn't lessen the exercise it is a step up from beginners. If Dale pops in, maybe he explain the graduated process concerning IP training.
http://www.karatemart.com/images/products/main/makiwara-clapper.jpg
http://masterlineco.com/images/ML0349-1.jpg

http://www.elitewarriorgear.com/media/03/a20792a139e540114aed8f_m.JPG


BUT IT SOUNDS COOL.

Well, apparently your martial arts knowledge is "hilariously bad."

Yep, I feel bad for the guy. He should quit, spend 5-6 years learning and then correcting his **** and then teach again. This is his full time job, so it is hard to give **** up. He was defrauded by three assholes and didn't know any better.

Mor Sao
3/07/2014 11:42am,
Iron Skills are real but how Jake is presenting them is a tad misleading. Stress on bones helps them to grow. But if someone is suffering from certain conditions I do not know the effects of what he is doing.

My Iron Body practices starts with fascia training. Then leads to hitting the body with the hands and then with training tools.

The slots help reduce the strikes and soften the impact. You do not want to strike immovable things as the risk of having that shock return to your CNS and cause issues is real.

You can get similar results with weight training and body weight training that induces the body to strengthen its structure in response to the stimulus applied.

So there are some nuggets of truth in Jakes concepts, just that old people getting down on the floor and whacking away on some wood blocks is not the best method.

CapnMunchh
3/07/2014 12:24pm,
First, we have Combat Tai Chi. This video gives such advice as blocking snap kicks with your forearm (a great way to have your arm broken)


Maybe the rationale is that it can be done if you have trained to harden the arms, but this is actually a pet peeve of mine for many years. I have been to quite a few schools in which students are taught to block front snap kicks with inside forearm blocks, usually with the arm facing the kick in such a way that the ulna makes contact. Not only is this a good way to break the ulna, dropping your guard to block a kick below the waist is also asking to get punched in the face.

Even in schools where students spar regularly, this common movement in karate forms is commonly interpreted within the kata as being primarily an inside block to a kick. I think this is good evidence of the disconnect often found between kata practice and the way that students in these schools actually fight, when they discover what really works and what doesnt.

Permalost
3/07/2014 1:24pm,
Maybe the rationale is that it can be done if you have trained to harden the arms, but this is actually a pet peeve of mine for many years.

It shouldn't be the rationale for fighting with TAI CHI though.

MikeD81
3/07/2014 1:44pm,
Regarding the osteoporosis claim. Resistance training and some moderate impact training are widely established as improving bone strength, however there are a lot of factors which need to be accounted for. Firstly and probably most relevantly, there needs to be a stimulus sufficient enough to tell the bone it needs to remodel itself due to stress being placed on it, however not strong enough to cause significant trauma and possibly result in a fracture, etc. So there is basically a sweet spot of force/impact/stress that can be applied, anything over will be harmful anything under will have little to no effect. With conditions such as osteoporosis this zone gets narrowed due to the person's low bone mineral density (BMD).

BMD is at its peak around the 25-30 year old mark for men (can't remember the figure for all the ladies out there). After this point it starts to decline naturally. So ideally, before and during this period you want to do as much as possible to increase it (ie drink your milk, do training involving a suitable level of resistance/impact). However, even as you age taking up appropriate activity that will stimulate bone remodelling will assist in improving your bone strength.

So to answer the question of whether its going to improve BMD in people with osteoporosis.... Possibly, if its done appropriately and within the limits to prevent significant damage. However if the training went out of this zone, you could be looking at some pretty severe consequences for the individual with osteoporosis.

Mor Sao
3/07/2014 1:45pm,
Jake is chop suey martial arts. All manner of gristly bits that mean nothing.

He has no real kung fu.

CapnMunchh
3/07/2014 1:52pm,
It shouldn't be the rationale for fighting with TAI CHI though.

Tai Chi is a subtle but vicious fighting style. Here are two Masters displaying their prowess:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W1ym3yggR4

For sheer unrestrained ferocity however, you can't beat -- Tai Chi Style Aikido! Combining the best of two great fighting arts:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTRJ0HeQkcs

If you watch this entire video, you will develop great endurance and a blank stare.

It is Fake
3/07/2014 2:09pm,
It shouldn't be the rationale for fighting with TAI CHI though.
Yes and no.

ghost55
3/07/2014 2:54pm,
Ah. That sounds like a mess. Thanks for explaining the iron training stuff. I was a bit confused by the phrasing and his method (Dale uses bean bags rather than boards if I am not mistaken). As for the concept of Iron Skills training, I never doubted that (if I could find a good place where I lived I would try to get Iron Body training ASAP), I just thought his method looked a bit different from what Dale did (plank thin vs bean bag), and some of his claims about his iron whatever training made me feel rather suspicious.

Ice Hole
3/07/2014 4:49pm,
Ah. That sounds like a mess. Thanks for explaining the iron training stuff. I was a bit confused by the phrasing and his method (Dale uses bean bags rather than boards if I am not mistaken). As for the concept of Iron Skills training, I never doubted that (if I could find a good place where I lived I would try to get Iron Body training ASAP), I just thought his method looked a bit different from what Dale did (plank thin vs bean bag), and some of his claims about his iron whatever training made me feel rather suspicious.

Iron training methods have a very simple, natural premise:

stress + time - injury = progress

Here, it's easy to see how IP is often abused/misused by people with fake/poor training:

Too much stress = BAD
Too little time = BAD
Any injury = BAD

Combine any of these with old age and frailty disease = VERY BAD

Jake seems to have had a mixed bag of IP exposure...I based that on the fact that his IP exercise is fabricated (ie not a standard IP practice that I know of). It looks like something he either made up or was shown that was made up. IP methods are traditionally done standing, with far less striking force and on a far more forgiving surface.

One of the red flags of poor/fake IP training is somebody actually hitting something hard and loud (ie for effect) repeatedly. Real masters of tid sa jeurng can practice nearly silently, if they choose. One of my favorite IP tools is a section of rubber tire innertube, tied off at both ends and filled with shot. Quiet, humble, effective, cheap. NO fancy woods, engravings, or sound effects.

The pushups part, I would love to see one of his "80 year old students" do that. Sorry, the LAST thing I would ever suggest is an elderly person with frailty bone disease doing IP training...they will not get stronger bones through slow, careful microfracturing the way nature intended and IP can somewhat stimulate, but fractures instead.

And that formula is pretty simple, statistically:

Old age + fractures = death