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OwlMatt
1/17/2014 11:45am,
15809


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/nyregion/unarmed-man-is-charged-with-wounding-bystanders-shot-by-police-near-times-square.html?_r=3&

http://nation.time.com/2013/12/05/unarmed-man-charged-in-shooting-after-cops-missed-him-but-hit-women/


After New York City police shot at but missed an emotionally disturbed man who was throwing himself in front of cars near Times Square, the man is now being charged for assault of the two bystanders who cops shot instead.


The man, Glenn Broadnax, 35, of Brooklyn, created a disturbance on Sept. 14, wading into traffic at 42nd Street and Eighth Avenue and throwing himself into the path of oncoming cars.
A curious crowd grew. Police officers arrived and tried to corral Mr. Broadnax, a 250-pound man. When he reached into his pants pocket, two officers, who, the police said, thought he was pulling a gun, opened fire, missing Mr. Broadnax, but hitting two nearby women. Finally, a police sergeant knocked Mr. Broadnax down with a Taser (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/s/stun_guns/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier).
The shootings once again raised questions about the police use of firearms in crowded areas and drew comparisons to a shooting a year ago, when officers struck nine bystanders in front of the Empire State Building (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/e/empire_state_building/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) when they killed an armed murder suspect.
Initially Mr. Broadnax was arrested on misdemeanor charges of menacing, drug possession and resisting arrest. But the Manhattan district attorney's office persuaded a grand jury to charge Mr. Broadnax with assault, a felony carrying a maximum sentence of 25 years. Specifically, the nine-count indictment unsealed on Wednesday said Mr. Broadnax "recklessly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death."
"The defendant is the one that created the situation that injured innocent bystanders," said an assistant district attorney, Shannon Lucey.

I'm not a legal expert, but I have a hard time imagining this standing up in court. Is there any legal precedent at all for charging someone with assault over someone else shooting someone? My understanding is that having "created the situation" does not add up to assault.

ermghoti
1/17/2014 12:04pm,
15809


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/nyregion/unarmed-man-is-charged-with-wounding-bystanders-shot-by-police-near-times-square.html?_r=3&

http://nation.time.com/2013/12/05/unarmed-man-charged-in-shooting-after-cops-missed-him-but-hit-women/





I'm not a legal expert, but I have a hard time imagining this standing up in court. Is there any legal precedent at all for charging someone with assault over someone else shooting someone? My understanding is that having "created the situation" does not add up to assault.

Is there an assault analog in NY law for felony murder? It's the same reasoning.

CapnMunchh
1/17/2014 12:42pm,
15809


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/nyregion/unarmed-man-is-charged-with-wounding-bystanders-shot-by-police-near-times-square.html?_r=3&

http://nation.time.com/2013/12/05/unarmed-man-charged-in-shooting-after-cops-missed-him-but-hit-women/





I'm not a legal expert, but I have a hard time imagining this standing up in court. Is there any legal precedent at all for charging someone with assault over someone else shooting someone? My understanding is that having "created the situation" does not add up to assault.

The title of a criminal offense should bear some reasonable connection to the conduct prohibited, if only because it helps the public to be aware of what conduct is prohibited. But the ordinary meaning of the term chosen to name a crime in the books does not control. The NYS legislature enacted a law that makes it a crime to "recklessly engage in conduct which created a grave risk of death." If the prosecution proves this, he will be convicted of assault or whatever the law says that offense is called.

However, a good defense attorney could well use this argument -- "how could he be convicted of assault if the women were shot by somebody else?" Thus taking advantage of the jury's likely perception of the meaning of the term. A good prosecutor or a good judge will make sure that the jury doesn't fall for that.

CapnMunchh
1/17/2014 2:06pm,
Is there an assault analog in NY law for felony murder? It's the same reasoning.

Not explicitly. You could say its the same reasoning: liability that results from an injury inflicted when intending to do something else that is bad, even if the injury itself was unintentional. Tho I'd say this statute is closer to something like "criminally negligent homicide" or degrees of manslaughter that result when death is caused by reckless or negligent conduct, such as drunk driving.

W. Rabbit
1/17/2014 2:20pm,
Regardless of how it plays out in court, some of the cops involved need serious reprimand and transfers.

This is not the first time NYPD have decided the best course of action is to fire multiple rounds in the busiest section of NYC, hitting pedestrians. 42nd and 8th? There are probably thousands of folks cramming that area any given day of the year, and way more during a busy time of day.

I'm glad they didn't kill anyone, but if the only person here who gets penalized is the crazy guy, then its just another in a long line of poorly trained cops being protected by the system.

Kudos to the NYPD sergeant who realized a TASER was the best, safest route. At least some of the people given badges and guns in that city aren't more a danger to pedestrians than the actual suspects...

CapnMunchh
1/17/2014 2:27pm,
Regardless of how it plays out in court, some of the cops involved need serious reprimand and transfers.

This is not the first time NYPD have decided the best course of action is to fire multiple rounds in the busiest section of NYC, hitting pedestrians. 42nd and 8th? There are probably thousands of folks cramming that area any given day of the year, and way more during a busy time of day.

I'm glad they didn't kill anyone, but if the only person here who gets penalized is the crazy guy, then its just another in a long line of poorly trained cops being protected by the system.

Kudos to the NYPD sergeant who realized a TASER was the best, safest route. At least some of the people given badges and guns in that city aren't more a danger to pedestrians than the actual suspects...

The Department and the City will have to punish them. Not only because they most likely violated some Department regs, but t because the City is likely to get sued and it will look really bad in the civil suit if the cops were allowed to go without consequences.

W. Rabbit
1/17/2014 3:27pm,
Don't mind me, I'm just worried and biased.

I was just recently right at 42nd and 8th buying a hotdog for my kid. The thought of some cop killing my son because some idiot is dancing in traffic (a daily occurrence in NYC) all but confirms why I rarely, if ever, go into NYC especially with my children.

ermghoti
1/17/2014 3:34pm,
I was going to add: the fact the perp was neutralized with a Taser eventually casts the shooters' escalation of force in a very bad light, irrespective of any criminal responsibility by the nutjob they were shooting at.

Bneterasedmynam
1/17/2014 3:36pm,
What the **** is required for firearm training in NY?? Hitting everything but the target?? Jesus this is getting retarded, once is bad enough, but seriously how many fucking times are they going to shoot bystanders before a new policy is drafted for their officers?? I hope they get sued for a billion dollars and lose their pensions.

Vieux Normand
1/17/2014 3:36pm,
I was going to add: the fact the perp was neutralized with a Taser eventually casts the shooters' escalation of force in a very bad light, irrespective of any criminal responsibility by the nutjob they were shooting at.

Naw...it just means that the rest of us have the use-of-force progression backwards.

CapnMunchh
1/17/2014 3:44pm,
Naw...it just means that the rest of us have the use-of-force progression backwards.

After they tazed him they asked him to show some I.D.

Bneterasedmynam
1/17/2014 3:47pm,
What really sucks is the people that get hit by their bad aim end up having a lifetime of pain and problems, yet the fucking worthless asshole cops get to keep their jobs and **** up all over again. What confuses me is why other cops defend them, it makes them all look bad.

CapnMunchh
1/17/2014 4:02pm,
What really sucks is the people that get hit by their bad aim end up having a lifetime of pain and problems, yet the fucking worthless asshole cops get to keep their jobs and **** up all over again. What confuses me is why other cops defend them, it makes them all look bad.

There's a pretty strong sense of solidarity among LEOs, in NYC and elsewhere. But there are also limits. When one of them starts behaving badly enough, the rest are not so stupid as to jeopardize their own jobs.

W. Rabbit
1/17/2014 4:37pm,
There's a pretty strong sense of solidarity among LEOs, in NYC and elsewhere. But there are also limits. When one of them starts behaving badly enough, the rest are not so stupid as to jeopardize their own jobs.

One more rant then I'll shut up.

A lot of folks in the city need work, and a lot of them get jobs as cops. So, the signal to noise ratio of NYC cops drops as the population increases.

Some NY cops know their beat, are friendly, careful, and when necessary tough enforcers of the law.

Some got placed there that morning, clearly don't like people talking to them, and have no clue what is one block in any direction. You can usually ID these cops by asking them for directions, especially to the nearest public telephone.

Hertzyscowicz
1/18/2014 5:57am,
I was going to add: the fact the perp was neutralized with a Taser eventually casts the shooters' escalation of force in a very bad light, irrespective of any criminal responsibility by the nutjob they were shooting at.

Apparently the perp pretended to pull a gun and fire at the cops. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/16/nyregion/firing-at-man-in-times-square-police-wound-two-bystanders.html

The whole affair looks a lot more like the perp's fault when you consider that. All of this actually looks like a suicide attempt.

Bneterasedmynam
1/18/2014 10:46am,
Apparently the perp pretended to pull a gun and fire at the cops. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/16/nyregion/firing-at-man-in-times-square-police-wound-two-bystanders.html

The whole affair looks a lot more like the perp's fault when you consider that. All of this actually looks like a suicide attempt.

Ok fine, but that still doesn't address my statement about the fact that NY cops can't hit the broad side of a fucking barn when they shoot. If the perp in fact had a gun those cops would still have hit the bystanders.