View Full Version : Big Man JUDO!!!

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5/02/2004 1:17am,
So, does anyone else do "big man Judo" and get bitched at about it?
I tend to fight from a shoulder grip. When doing randori a few monthes ago with out nat'l level guy, he commented that I should consider instead of just holding on someones back, working down to the belt. So, I started implementing this in randori. The problem is as soon as I get that grip people bend over at the waist, which limits most of the throws I can do because A. For a foward throw I need to get under thier hips, which means I would need to let go of the grip I fought for. B. To take them backwards I would need to take them past thier bend, causing me to use more energy.
So what I tend to do is rest on top of them, forcing them to carry my wieght and then dropping to my ass in a sacrifice technique...usually sumi-gashie (sp). Does it work? **** yeah. From there it is next to impossible to stop.
The problem?
I get bitched at for doing "big guy" judo...to the point I was told no more sacrifice throws. Which I can see, but that fucks everything up if they are bent over.
So, thoughts?
Anyone else encounter this?

5/02/2004 2:45am,
Do I understand you right that you grip over the shoulder to the belt?
That's fine the whole of Azerbaijan fights like that. ( and a few more Asian countries)
They call it Gadauli grip , which is even better when the arm that grips the belt at the same time pushes the head down with the elbow.
Leg graps, sacrifce throws, all that works really well.

Problem - if you are not that heavy/strong - you are easily countered with Kata Guruma or Te guruma.

They bitch, because they are uncomfortable with it. What's the point in not allowing you sacrifice throws? What are they doing to do if their next opponent in a tournament uses exactly that grip?

General advice is :
Get a superior grip position with 2:1, 2:0 grip domination.
Throw as soon as possible instead of holding that grip forever.

Book you next training camp in Baku, they will love you !

5/02/2004 4:27am,
I'm still very new to the gripping game. One thing I remember reading was as soon as you get controlling grip, throw.

Hell, I just learned not to use my thumbs like last week.

5/02/2004 4:30am,
yup, thats one of my favourite throws. i have a sweet vid of me doing it at contest

greese: can you do the russian throws? the khabarrelli etc, are all from an over the back belt grip

deus ex machina
5/02/2004 4:34am,
It's an Eastern European thing. I saw that a lot of with some Russians I trained with (over the shoulder), along with leg picks. But seriously, if you let someone get that grip, you deserve to be tossed...and you ARE going to get tossed, make no mistake about that.

5/02/2004 4:34am,
Post it!

5/02/2004 4:49am,
i might try to make it into a funky gif avatar like yours, but it's not worth actually posting

5/02/2004 5:05am,
Found a picture of the gadauli grip.
Here is nicely demonstrated how you improve your over the shoulder grip by pulling your partners upperbody towards you with the other hand.


Beneath Contempt
5/02/2004 5:43am,
The thing is, in Judo, you ALWAYS meet someone bigger eventually, and I feel that if you use weight advantage throws like makkikomi and sacrifices consistently against smaller guys, when you come up against a real monster, the advantage is lost as your main technique is a strength/weight combination. If you're a sacrifice/makkikomi specialist, on the other hand - that's a different matter and good luck to you.

5/02/2004 8:41am,
If you check out Russian Judo, by Iatskevich, he demonstrates ouchi-gari, osoto, osoto into harai, and I think an uchimata from that grip. My teacher recommends grabbing the gi above the belt, though, since you only get a few seconds with the belt, but I get a much stronger lift with the belt grip.

5/02/2004 10:13am,
I will have to check it out. I tend to force peoples hips out when I get that grip so it makes it a bitch to counter. I tend not to go for a fast throw from there because I fight for that grip so I don't want to give it up for nothing. And worst case scenario it will wear an opponent out.

5/02/2004 12:36pm,
definately check out the Russian judo book, it is probably the best ippon masterclass book, and has an interesting introduction regarding the history of sambo, and covers alot of the big uranage type throws. ===== good call johnny 5 , my coach says the same thing about gripping above the belt.

greese--- my coach showed me a few techs to try in combo with the grip that AFS posted. i will get him to show me again on saturday then will send you a pm

5/03/2004 12:09pm,
Also Greese, why are you doing Judo ?
If self defense is any part of the answer than concentrating on sumigaeshi as your tokuiwaza is going to limit you on the "street".
I am sure sacrifice techniques may occasionally have their place outside the dojo but for the most part they could not be the preferred technique for obvious reasons. ( beerstains on your leisure suit etc)
I think the other big knock against big man Judo is that is flies in the face of what Judo is about, overcoming superior force with technique, not mass.

5/03/2004 12:48pm,

My teachers recommend me to fight more like a middleweight, even though I'm a heavyweight; they say I'll be more successful that way. I do find that big people (myself included) have a tendency to sometimes kind of make up for kuzushi with strength, which is all fine and well until you hit the tournament and you meet people your size.

Since this is a BIG MAN JUDO thread, does anyone have any suggestions if all of your training partners are either 40-50 pound lighter, or one guy 40-50 pounds heavier than you?

Beneath Contempt
5/03/2004 3:01pm,
Originally posted by strongbad
I think the other big knock against big man Judo is that is flies in the face of what Judo is about, overcoming superior force with technique, not mass.

I disagree. If you are having trouble with an opponent - and you use makkikomi to bring him/her down - you may have used your weight, but it's not like you've just charged into him and tried to knock them over.

The difference is that makkikomi / sacrifices are about using your weight directly as the force in the throw instead of by pivoting at the waist like in most hip/shoulder throws.

5/03/2004 4:03pm,
It is more a response to my opponents actions. IF he wants to keep his hips away and make me work to do normal throws, I am going to punish him for it by putting a lot of pressure on him and then doing a big ass throw.
I tended not to do sacrifice throws since I never needed them untill I got people in a really defensive posture. Normally I hit a lot of uchimata combinations, koshi garuma, O Soto , and sweeps.