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MM4Guy
4/30/2004 4:44pm,
Today, I was fight training at mid morning around 9, and when I was hitting pads, a random stranger walked in inquiring about class.

All I wear when I train is shorts, so when he came in he look startled and the first thing he asked was, "Why don't you guys wear uniforms?" My instructor, although annoyed simply explained that you get more mobility with short-shorts :D. Then the retard that came in asked about belts, and my trainer once again said "What's the point of belts, if you're good, then you're good, and people will recognize that, regardless of belt." Then almost trying to hide it, the guy said, "Wow, don't you guys even do forms?" and start talking about a martial arts system has to have zen/belts/meditation. Then my instructor practically kicked him out and told him to go to the Kung-Fu school down the street if he wanted to slap fight.

So now that I shared the story, just curious about how people who are looking for Martial Arts for self defense purposes
are attracted to blackbelts/shiny ribbons/ a red gi with patches.

If you are looking for a system with forms and breathing excercises I could care less, but why are people always looking for belts/ gi's.

(On a side note: One of my friends who never heard of BJJ and was looking for a school to teach street fighting, joined just because he heard that it took a long time to reach black belt, and it was fun) So it always isn't negative, but WHY?

I mean almost everyone has seen boxing, and don't they even have the slightest bit of what is really necessary? Tyson didn't have a black belt or clean gi pants, but he could beat the living fucking crap out of you.




GRRR! PEOPLE!?!?!?!?!

MM4Guy
4/30/2004 4:47pm,
Im not saying that people are necessarily attracted to McDojo just because they like belts/uniforms. Lots of great MA have belts and uniforms (Judo/BJJ), but why do people (ones that are looking for self defense) fall into the BS of eastern mysticism.

I mean it has to be something other than Hollywood.

MaverickZ
4/30/2004 4:48pm,
the aura of mystery and mysticalness.

hapki_18
4/30/2004 4:49pm,
because the only martial arts influence that these people ever seen is probably in a chuck norris or jet li movie.

Omar
4/30/2004 4:52pm,
Boxing is the example I always give to non-martial artists to explain why I don't have a belt.

Or sometimes I just lie and make one up.....just like the masters.

"You do kung fu? Wow...what belt are you?"

"Erm....*thinks for a moment*....BLACK belt! . .. uh.....5th degree. :)"

Or alternately,

"Um, what belt is Mike Tyson?"

Or

"What belt would impress you?"

or

"I have completely trancended belts and use suspenders now."

johnbo
4/30/2004 4:54pm,
Just think about it ... Average Joe wants that black belt, but he doesn't want the pain, the bruises and all that other terrible stuff that comes with it. He doesn't want to spar hard, why should he ? He knows the FORMS !

Omar
4/30/2004 4:54pm,
Originally posted by hapki_18
because the only martial arts influence that these people ever seen is probably in a chuck norris or jet li movie.

Which STILL doesn't make sense since Jet Li doesn't wear a black belt or even have one in anything. :confused:

MM4Guy
4/30/2004 4:55pm,
Originally posted by Omar
Which STILL doesn't make sense since Jet Li doesn't wear a black belt or even have one in anything. :confused:

Thats exactly what Im talking about. Most people have never seen anyone ever wear a black belt in Hollywood. So I can understand if they want to do Karate/KungFu based on hollywood, but why belts/zen.

tkdan28
4/30/2004 4:56pm,
hippies said it best 'Different strokes for different folks'... not all come to the arts for self-defense. Like me... not that I don't need SD, just that I'll do it different ways. Can you kick my ass in a ring? Maybe, I'll just make sure it doesn't come to that. Not being in that situation is the first rule... Best way to block a strike... don't be there. Not being in the ring, not being the situation to cause me to be in the ring, not being where your strike is going to land... it can mean different things. I've not been in a lot of conflicts on the street. *****? Maybe... Smart? Probably.

People come to MA for a lot of different reasons.

MM4Guy
4/30/2004 4:57pm,
Originally posted by tkdan28
hippies said it best 'Different strokes for different folks'... not all come to the arts for self-defense. Like me... not that I don't need SD, just that I'll do it different ways. Can you kick my ass in a ring? Maybe, I'll just make sure it doesn't come to that. Not being in that situation is the first rule... Best way to block a strike... don't be there. Not being in the ring, not being the situation to cause me to be in the ring, not being where your strike is going to land... it can mean different things. I've not been in a lot of conflicts on the street. *****? Maybe... Smart? Probably.

People come to MA for a lot of different reasons.

I know that not many people come to the arts for self defense. Why do people who do, tend to be attracted to Belt systems?

Mr. Mantis
4/30/2004 5:02pm,
Originally posted by MM4Guy

..., but why are people always looking for belts/ gi's.



So they don't have to buy a costume for halloween?

HAPKO3
4/30/2004 5:04pm,
People look for easy solutions to hard problems. McDojos attract so many customers for much the same reasons that "get rich quick" scemes never go out of style. Sure, you can work hard, earn money, educate yourself, and advance in life. That takes effort, you see. It's much easier to mail $50 bucks to these five addresses on the list and wait for the riches to roll in a month or so later. This is why books on how anyone at all can make millions on the real estate market, no up-fron investments required, sell like wildfire at $200 bucks a shot.

Add to that hollywood flicks, where frail old "masters" effortlessly defeat boxers/streetfighters, whatever, after doing some forms and sitting with their legs crossed and an enlightened look on their faces.

Sure, you can go to the guy, build muscle, train fighting, take punches, get hurt, etc. etc. But why do that when you can just sign on the dotted line, write a $2000 dollar check, and get you black belt in two years, along with an order of fries and a coke, and an option to supersize it to a dan grade for an additional fee.

Asside from all of that bullshit, peopele, generally, need to set guals to keep themselves motivated. In addition to a long-term goal (black belt) you need short term goals that you can shoot for and actually achieve in a reasonable time frame. When I lift weights to gain strength, I set myself a long term goal, and short term goals along the way. Hitting these target weights makes me feel good about myself, keeps me going along to the big goal. That's just how our mind works. That's why I think some sort of rank within a school is a good thing. It gives people achievable targets to shoot for and keeps 'em motivated.

Colin
4/30/2004 5:04pm,
MM4Guy - I'd say it is because of the implied status. They somehow have the idea in their head that if they sit a Shodan grading, all of a sudden they will start to move around and fight like masters.

hapki_18
4/30/2004 5:20pm,
well, it's pretty much ingrained in our society to think that a black belt imeans that you're a top level martial artist. i mean people don't know about 2nd dan or higher. they only know that it's a black belt, and by wearing that they think they're a badass.

dramaboy
4/30/2004 5:30pm,
People like structure.
grunt, assistant assistant manager, assistant manager, manager, senior manager etcetc
It's everywhere, people are conditioned.
People want to see themselve progress, even the progress is just imaginary.

Tomas

bunyip
4/30/2004 5:31pm,
How many people, after hearing that you do martial arts, ask if you've got a black belt? People who go to McDojos just want to be able to answer, "Yes."