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mystsa
11/27/2002 10:25pm,
There are so many kickboxing styles nowadays, how do they differ, which ones do you think are the best. Like this Savate stuff, I know Bruce Lee incorporated some into JKD but I've taken a look at it on some sites and I personally prefer Muay Thai or JKD, whats the difference?

Blad3
11/28/2002 1:54am,
Muay Thai I woulds say is the best - allowed to knee, elbows, kicks (the most powerful) and pucnhes. There is also a throw or two, + teh clinch. Taught the most effecient ways to do all these things, except, some might say pucnh (need to go to boxing for that.)

Savate - Kickboxing, with regular boxing - fight with shoes on.

There's San Shou - kickboxing (kicks/pucnhes) with kind of wrestling takedowns/throws.

Full contact Kickboxing - I think they mostly use Thai Kicks, but with boxing also.

I've heard of Japanese kickboxing.

Also Kyokushin Karate - basically a type of MT (not not that similar), with an emphasis on roundhouse kicks too - more limiting rules, but full contact and in a more karate style (it is karate) way, and bare knuckles. They actully keep their guard-up too from what I've seen. Best style of Karate by far, can compete with MT/boxing as a stand-up art/sport fighting system.

Then there's MMA/NHB Muay Thai and boxing - with all the submission and throws etc...

JKD is MMA, or MMA with "street" self defnce technqiues etc - less evolved imo. The "systems" contain some Kung Fu usually, and soem other stuff - so no exactly MMA. Shootfighjting/Pancrase are both also MMA styles (practically the same.)

Nihilanthic
11/28/2002 2:06am,
Savate is a french kickboxing style. I don't know many specifics but I think they utilize shoes...

JKD isn't really a set of techniques but a philosophy - take what works, discard what does not. Bruce Lee's JKD was based off of Wing Chun, but anything can be "Jeet Kun Do"

Muay Thai is A thailanese kickboxing art. Its a lot "harder" than others. It allows punches, elbows, knees, kicks (some using your shin), and stand up clinching. Its not like how boxers do it, they try to grapple the head and strike or throw (depending on what rules they are fighting under).

Currently Muay Thai is a very well known and respected striking art. Its influence in K-1 and MMA events is very well known. I'd suggest taking Muay Thai, myself, but I may be a little biased. Then again, learning savate outside of france might not be that easy, and JKD could be many many things. You could apply JKD's concepts to Muay Thai.

<Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
<John> I'd have to smack you sometime...

mystsa
11/28/2002 7:20am,
Yeah I have to agree with Nihilanthic. In fact I want to start Muay Thai.

JKDChick
11/28/2002 6:14pm,
Well, I really, really good savate guy is usually blindingly fast with his feet -- faster than any Muay Thai guy. I'm thinking Daniel Dubay here, whom even Dan Inosanto says is "faster than Bruce could ever have been." But there aren't a lot like him around.

JKD is so "street lethal" based there isn't much high kicking but I know what we do is all from Savate. Savate kicks are fast and efficent at their heart; get in, get to the target, withdraw faster than you kicked. We do a savate kick to the ribs but it's not something you really do in free-sparring -- it's a set-up-with-dumog-or-tai-chi-push-to-mid-section-kick.

"I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."

Edited by - JKDChick on November 28 2002 18:17:49

Nihilanthic
11/28/2002 6:34pm,
the thing is, I've never even seen a savate place in the USA at all, and i don't know that he could find one in his area. I do like how it utilizes shoes for kicking... does it use them for toe-kicks?

<Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
<John> I'd have to smack you sometime...

JKDChick
11/28/2002 6:49pm,
Yeah, the first time I wore my cowboy boots to the gym, I got told I should get them properly soled, so I could kick in them. Toe point shin kicks with pointy shoes can snap bone.

By the by, we use MUCH more Muay Thai in fighting than savate. It's just that savate is so good for making you flexible and fast, even if you never use it in combat.

Paul Vunak teaches/taught savate, but yeah, I'd say you'll not find a straight savate school with much ease. I think Daniel Dubay lives in South Africa these days. You could commute ...

"I'm not tense; just terribly, terribly alert."



Edited by - JKDChick on November 28 2002 20:22:24

mystsa
11/29/2002 3:21pm,
So savate kicks are faster than Muay thai kicks? But arent muay thai kicks more powerful.

SLJ
11/29/2002 3:51pm,
Yes,

IMO Mauy Thai has the most powerfull kicks.

"Blood sugar suckerfish is my dish.
How many pieces do you wish ?"

Gezere
11/29/2002 3:56pm,
The idea of MT kicks being the most powerful is a bit off.

Mechanicly the side thrust kick is the most powerful kick the body can produced while staying on the ground (in an ariel kick you can pretty much put more of you body way behind the kick but with out the stablity of a support all that power can be easily deflected.)

SPORT MT relies many on the round kick using the shin as a club which is pretty devestating.

Traditional MT has much more to offer. There are joint locks as well and an Weapon based art to compliment it.

The key to MT lies in the conditioning. You HAVE to condition your shins if you plan on using them if not you will be in for a big suprise when you make bone on bone contact.

Savate many theories are about on how savate developed but most common is that is came form a Basque kicking art and was later refined others suggest influence form sailors returning form the far east. Orginally there were no punches in Savate just open hand slaps. The punching came in when a savatuer was defeated by an english boxer.

Savate also as a complimenting weapons art of LaCanne which contians several stick weapons. (La Canne, Grande Baton, and Le Petite Baton are the most common)

Savate kicking uses various part of the foot like other kicking arts. In Savate kick are genreally delivired with the natural swing of the body when it is in motion making them look more graceful (french are big on aestics after all). The reason for the shoes is because CHAUSON (the forementioned Basque influence art) means "Old Shoe" and was used by hooligans to fight with and how often do you actually fight bare foot?
Here I have to mentioned that there is a difference in Savate and La Boxe Franciase. The terms have been used interchangablely but are really difference. Savate is the fighting art where La Boxe Franciase really deals with the sport fighting you see today. Like MT there are many kicks and aspects that are not used in the common sport we see today.


Savate's influence in JKD can be seen in the form of coup de pied bas (Lee's famous low kick) and chasse median (Lee's famous side kick) which he practices religiously.

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

I Give BJJs
11/29/2002 9:14pm,
actually, even most karate and TKD instructors will tell you that the round kick is more powerful than the side kick.

reason being is because the round kick, thrown properly, involves hip and shoulder rotation, whereas a side kick is basically thrown with only the quads and glutes, so you can get more body weight behind a round kick.

Nihilanthic
11/29/2002 11:39pm,
BJJob...
If you did that and did a round kick like they do (with the instep) do you have any idea what is going to happen to your ankle?

Maybe I have bad ankles, but I hurt them real easy with a roundhouse. Now, your shin can take a followed-through strike pretty well.

Asia... got a demo of the coup de pied bas (the famous low kick)?


<Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
<John> I'd have to smack you sometime...

jkd_fighter
11/29/2002 11:41pm,
you seriously are not from brazil are you?

I Give BJJs
11/30/2002 12:14am,
yeah, don't use your instep Nihilanthic

tkd fighter, originally from Brazil, but in the States now

Nihilanthic
11/30/2002 2:14am,
Who's bright idea was it to use the instep anyway? Just wondering... It took about two kicks on the heavy bag and I started using my lower shin... and that was about 5 minutes into my start of knowing about martial arts. Or fighting at all.

<Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
<John> I'd have to smack you sometime...

I Give BJJs
11/30/2002 3:14am,
instep kicks CAN work to the head, because the head will give (as in flex) with your kick more than a leg or torso.