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Wounded Ronin
2/11/2013 5:51am,
So, have any of you read Dorner's manifesto? Any comments on his personal war on the LAPD?

http://documents.latimes.com/christopher-dorner-manifesto/?track=lanowpicks

He seems intelligent, articulate, and knowledgable. As far as I can tell, not that I know anything about anything.

This is the one story I'm following out here in the FSM.

Note that Dorner didn't simply go postal. He killed three people and then disappeared. It seems like he's biding his time. He isn't driven to attack with total disregard, but is rather being cautious and avoiding circumstances in which the LAPD will be able to return fire on him.

The thing is, in a way, time is on his side. The longer the LAPD remain on "tactical alert" the more it will stress their budget and their personnel. Dorner doesn't need to be an attacking frenzied madman. He just needs to keep the LAPD on "tactical alert" and never let them relax, and he'll wear down that whole organization.

This kind of ties into the gun control discourse. Lots of people discount civilian ownership of military pattern rifles saying that random civvies can't compare to a professional miliary. But look how stressed this one guy has the LAPD.

Look at the example of the Boer War. The redcoats eventually defeated the Boers by cracking down hard on the families of the insurgents and putting them all in concentration camps. But in the continental US, imagine the social stress that would be caused if the government in this day in age tried to crack down on some guys with rifles by throwing non combatant families in concentration camps.

I'm interested in hearing what you have to say on any area of the subject.

Wounded Ronin
2/11/2013 6:00am,
Bah, for some reason it's not letting me edit my post.

My point in bringing up the Boer War was to make allusion to the people who say random civilians with rifles can't bother a professional military. But that's sort of predicated on the professional military being prepared to be utterly ruthless to the civilian population as a whole, which might not always be the case.

mojo23
2/11/2013 10:27am,
I've noticed there are multiple versions of the manifesto going around. The one that's being touted as the "real" one by the media is the one with the completely incongruent praising of gun control and Michelle Obama. The writing style on those paragraphs doesn't seem to line up with the rest of it. As someone pointed out, he uses triple exclamation points like a 14 year old girl!!! <-- see?

Devil
2/11/2013 10:28am,
So, I read the manifesto. The media should label this guy accurately. He's a liberal terrorist. A left wing extremist.

He goes on and on about the need for gun control, white racism, NRA hatred, homosexual rights, hatred of conservative politicians, fanboy admiration of liberal politicians, etc. We damn sure got to hear about the conservative views of Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph in the media. Let's talk about this clown's liberal views now.

He's also a buddyfucker. No wonder all the other cops gave him ****. They couldn't trust him.

And he's a walking truckload of butthurt. In his manifesto he whined about everybody who hurt his feelings since grade school. What a ******.

And he can't shoot. Fucking Navy "Marksman".

Diesel_tke
2/11/2013 10:30am,
I think the whole thing going on out there with this guys is pretty scary! I know that the police and families of police have got to be scared shitless. I've thought about stuff like this for years. I've talked about it with members of the Rapid Response Team that I was on, SWAT members, snipers, and a lot of military. Most of us agreed that if a guy decided to go on a killing rampage, and was able to keep his head through the whole thing, it would devistating to whoever the targets were.

It is easy to get disgruntled in the LEO field. Low pay, shitty benifits, and lack of support from the public wears on you. I've known people who have committed suicide because of it. It's a tough situation.

This guy out in Cali has the potential to keep this going for a long time before getting caught. He has the ability to cause a lot of death and terror. The other scary thing to me, is that he is showing the public how it is supposed to be done. Right now, it appears that the only people who should be worried are the ones he is pissed off at. He isn't shooting at random. But he is showing people how it should be done if they want to go on a long term killing spree. That is not good.

Devil
2/11/2013 10:42am,
But he is showing people how it should be done if they want to go on a long term killing spree. That is not good.

Maybe. Let's see how it turns out. He has only killed 3 people so far. Up to this point, the DC "snipers" were much more successful at creating havoc and it's not like they sparked a string of copycats.

They could catch him this afternoon and a year from now nobody would remember his name. Or he could go on shooting people once a month for the next couple of years. We'll have to see how it plays out.

Diesel_tke
2/11/2013 10:49am,
Yeah. 3 people is a lot if you are one of the 3. Or that is your family. The fact that he has the whole LAPD looking for him and hasn't been caught yet is a pretty big deal. In my opinion. I hope they get him. I think their will be more killings before it all ends. Either way, because I don't think he will allow himself to get caught without being killed.

mojo23
2/11/2013 10:54am,
So, I read the manifesto. The media should label this guy accurately. He's a liberal terrorist. A left wing extremist.

He goes on and on about the need for gun control, white racism, NRA hatred, homosexual rights, hatred of conservative politicians, fanboy admiration of liberal politicians, etc. We damn sure got to hear about the conservative views of Tim McVeigh and Eric Rudolph in the media. Let's talk about this clown's liberal views now.

He's also a buddyfucker. No wonder all the other cops gave him ****. They couldn't trust him.

And he's a walking truckload of butthurt. In his manifesto he whined about everybody who hurt his feelings since grade school. What a ******.

And he can't shoot. Fucking Navy "Marksman".

Assuming that's the real manifesto. The first version I read just talked about the LAPD. Seemed odd to me that someone on a shooting rampage would be pro gun control- and supporting Feinstein's bill no less? I dunno- he is a nut on a shooting rampage, and I do tend to be conspiracy minded, but there's something incongruous about the celebrity sucking sections of that document.

Devil
2/11/2013 11:02am,
Yeah. 3 people is a lot if you are one of the 3. Or that is your family. The fact that he has the whole LAPD looking for him and hasn't been caught yet is a pretty big deal. In my opinion. I hope they get him. I think their will be more killings before it all ends. Either way, because I don't think he will allow himself to get caught without being killed.

Of course it's a big deal if you're one of the three. You're missing my point. My point is that others have been more successful in their efforts and it hasn't served as a roadmap for terror that others have followed, which is what you were getting at in your post. The DC shooters are the first that come to mind. That manhunt was every bit as big as this one, if not bigger. This is not some unprecedented new level of terror.

If he goes for a while without being captured and keeps killing cops for the next 6 months, I'll re-evaluate my assessment of the situation.

Rock Ape
2/11/2013 11:02am,
Would you agree that his knowledge of Police procedure and general doctrine is providing him with an advantage..

I find it difficult, given the very public knowledge of this person's activities and, they know who he is, that he's remaining at large without the help and assistance of others.

To ultimately achieve his aims he needs to be mobile and have the ability to plan, prepare and then deliver his objectives, this can't be easy if operating alone. At this stage, I'm guessing he's already achieved what he set out to do by creating the fear factor and, upping the tactical alert status of an entire police force. I'm making an assumption therefore that he could just lay low for a protracted time before choosing to act again (if ever).

Devil
2/11/2013 11:06am,
Assuming that's the real manifesto. The first version I read just talked about the LAPD. Seemed odd to me that someone on a shooting rampage would be pro gun control- and supporting Feinstein's bill no less? I dunno- he is a nut on a shooting rampage, and I do tend to be conspiracy minded, but there's something incongruous about the celebrity sucking sections of that document.

Mojo23 (if that really is your name) - I'm not at all interested in having an AboveTopSecret discussion about the federal government killing cops and making this guy a patsy and planting fake documents, or any of that ****.

Devil
2/11/2013 11:16am,
Would you agree that his knowledge of Police procedure and general doctrine is providing him with an advantage..

I find it difficult, given the very public knowledge of this person's activities and, they know who he is, that he's remaining at large without the help and assistance of others.

To ultimately achieve his aims he needs to be mobile and have the ability to plan, prepare and then deliver his objectives, this can't be easy if operating alone. At this stage, I'm guessing he's already achieved what he set out to do by creating the fear factor and, upping the tactical alert status of an entire police force. I'm making an assumption therefore that he could just lay low for a protracted time before choosing to act again (if ever).

I would definitely agree that his knowledge gives him an advantage.

I also agree that he can't hide forever without help but it hasn't been that long. He could've had enough food in a single pack to survive longer than this. Plus, surviving/hiding and mounting any kind of offense are two different things. I believe he'll get caught, or more likely killed when he starts moving around again. Everybody knows who he is. I expect he'll kill a couple more in the process though.

Diesel_tke
2/11/2013 11:28am,
Of course it's a big deal if you're one of the three. You're missing my point. My point is that others have been more successful in their efforts and it hasn't served as a roadmap for terror that others have followed, which is what you were getting at in your post. The DC shooters are the first that come to mind. That manhunt was every bit as big as this one, if not bigger. This is not some unprecedented new level of terror.

If he goes for a while without being captured and keeps killing cops for the next 6 months, I'll re-evaluate my assessment of the situation.

Yeah, I followed the DC shooters pretty close. One of the people killed was one if my teachers in high school. Yeah, they did a pretty good job and could have gone further if they really wanted to.

I'm not saying it is unprecedented, but it seems like more of this stuff is popping up lately, and the more it happens, the more people learn from them. It would be better if all of his tactics were not plastered all over the net and TV for people to see.

Obviously opinions will change as this goes on, or ends. I tend to be pessimistic on these types of things, I guess.


Would you agree that his knowledge of Police procedure and general doctrine is providing him with an advantage..

I find it difficult, given the very public knowledge of this person's activities and, they know who he is, that he's remaining at large without the help and assistance of others.

To ultimately achieve his aims he needs to be mobile and have the ability to plan, prepare and then deliver his objectives, this can't be easy if operating alone. At this stage, I'm guessing he's already achieved what he set out to do by creating the fear factor and, upping the tactical alert status of an entire police force. I'm making an assumption therefore that he could just lay low for a protracted time before choosing to act again (if ever).

Yeah, his knowledge of police tactics, specifically the ones he is targeting would be very benificial. He knows, from the inside what they will be doing to try and find him which would allow him to stay hidden longer, compared to someone ignorant of their methods. But, the fact that they know that he knows is also benificial to the police because they will know some stuff wont work, right away.

I think he difinitly will already think he is successful. Just having the police on high tactical alert will be satifying to him. It will also cause a lot of fatigue and stress on the ones pursuing him. That helps him, too. I would assume they are bringing in the FBI to help, but every part of that department will be feeling this worse and worse as it goes on.

If he is doing it without any help, then he is even more of a bad ass. But he has had a few years to plan, if he has been doing that. So he may have thuroughly set up his safe areas, alternate transpertation, and food sources.

Diesel_tke
2/11/2013 11:34am,
I would definitely agree that his knowledge gives him an advantage.

I also agree that he can't hide forever without help but it hasn't been that long. He could've had enough food in a single pack to survive longer than this. Plus, surviving/hiding and mounting any kind of offense are two different things. I believe he'll get caught, or more likely killed when he starts moving around again. Everybody knows who he is. I expect he'll kill a couple more in the process though.

Yeah, I'm guessing that he has another car since he ditched his. If he had a car/van/SUV that was packed full of suplies then that alone can last him for a while. Then he just needs a place to park and hide.

Devil
2/11/2013 11:38am,
If he is doing it without any help, then he is even more of a bad ass.

If you think this guy is a badass, I would say you're easily impressed. He killed two unsuspecting civilians, then had a couple shootouts with officers resulting in one death - all with the element of surprise on his side before the full scope of the situation was clear to law enforcement.

Now he's off in a hidey hole somewhere just hoping he'll be able to find a way to kill a couple more cops before he gets wasted.

McKayla Maroney is not impressed.

Diesel_tke
2/11/2013 11:52am,
If you think this guy is a badass, I would say you're easily impressed.

I don't think he has earned bad ass status yet. That's why I said "more of a", rather than "is a". Time will tell.

And who is McKayla Maroney?