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Gigatron
9/03/2012 5:36am,
i'm a newbie here and have been advised to make some post to gets some points up so i can post some photos and the like. so i have something to ask about.

i have seen that there is a lot of bashing going on around here about different styles, and i see people painting the whole organization with the same brush. if i mention GKR, i will see the fight that will go on here. if i mention traditional martial art against MMA. well i don't want to even go there to see the aftermath..

so i will ask about something i know a little bit about myself.

why does everyone bash the Bujinakn..

i know there a large organisation, and that there is a lot of (high) ranking instructors that are just twats, but there is also a lot of other instructors who keep quiet, and even i would not want to meet them in a dark alley at night.. they are very good.

i see that people have problems with bujinkan's classic straight punch... from this x-kans will jump up about there style and traditional's will go on about it not being effective and the like, and the x-kans would be in trouble against a good karate-ka or kickboxer.

so my question is. what do traditional martial artist's think about Bujinkan instructors that have cross trained, and can apply both or multiple styles to there training.

i have meet many an x-kan instructor who like me held black belts and above in other styles before they even started Bujinkan.

i can understand the problem that TMA would have with the straight punch, and standing still waiting to be thrown.. but what about if the instructor can also see the benefit of it, and understand that its only a starting point to work from and practise.

now before people start going on about there is no sparring so its not real. i train (& teach) in Shotokan Karate, so i spar several times a week, and i also train in Bjj and grapple there as well, and i still think that Bujinkan has some great benefits in the system

i also agree just like in any style or organisation. there are instructors that give that style a bad rep.. i myself have been criticized from high ranking x-kans sensei's about my training original karate and other training, and told that it is no good,
also i have had some x-kans sensei's practise with me to get better at defence against a Karate-ka or the like.


so what do you think about people who train in Bujinkan, as well as other ( traditional ) martial art styles..

thanks to all. mathew

Family Karate Centre

The reason why people think the Tsuki [ straight punch ] is useless is because most people who do it are doing it wrong and don't realize how it's meant to be used. Range is dynamic in the technique, a Tsuki isn't always a lunge punch done by a man in pajamas, it can be short, it can be hidden or set up. In combat [ not kata ] the Tsuki is used like a cross with kuden [ principals ] behind it.

battlefields
9/03/2012 7:25am,
The reason why people think the Tsuki [ straight punch ] is useless is because most people who do it are doing it wrong and don't realize how it's meant to be used. Range is dynamic in the technique, a Tsuki isn't always a lunge punch done by a man in pajamas, it can be short, it can be hidden or set up. In combat [ not kata ] the Tsuki is used like a cross with kuden [ principals ] behind it.


Of course! It's so simple! It's not that the technique sucks, it's that everyone is doing it wrong.

slamdunc
9/03/2012 7:53am,
Of course! It's so simple! It's not that the technique sucks, it's that everyone is doing it wrong.Could it be due to the fact that most booj practitioners in general, tend to be posers? I am sure that within any style, there are a few that put forth the effort to do it right, but Ninjers tend to focus on the black pajamas and secret scrolls, more than technique.

http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member3257.png (http://militarysignatures.com)

Gigatron
9/03/2012 11:51am,
Could it be due to the fact that most booj practitioners in general, tend to be posers? I am sure that within any style, there are a few that put forth the effort to do it right, but Ninjers tend to focus on the black pajamas and secret scrolls, more than technique.

http://militarysignatures.com/signatures/member3257.png (http://militarysignatures.com)
You got it sir, and yes they are doing it wrong.

I'd explain but apparently according to a thread "It is Fake" felt the need to make trying to assume I don't do pro MMA when I indeed do [ maybe he's mad because he doesn't and that I would wreck him in the cage? ].

I'm apparently "masturbating on how much I think I know about martial arts" so my opinion on what they are doing wrong isn't required ;).

hungryjoe
9/03/2012 11:57am,
You got it sir, and yes they are doing it wrong.

I'd explain but apparently according to a thread "It is Fake" felt the need to make trying to assume I don't do pro MMA when I indeed do [ maybe he's mad because he doesn't and that I would wreck him in the cage? ].

I'm apparently "masturbating on how much I think I know about martial arts" so my opinion on what they are doing wrong isn't required ;).

You have any video of you performing lunge punches in the correct manner?

In the ring?

Any video at all?

Gigatron
9/03/2012 12:01pm,
You have any video of you performing lunge punches in the correct manner?

In the ring?

Any video at all?

The Tsuki isn't a "lunge punch". That's LARPers holding their arms out thinking they understand a technique they do not only to have Tori beat Uke senseless while he holds said arm out.

I wasn't aware MMA took place in a ring outside of PRIDE. And it shares the same principals as a shoot.

Any understanding of those principals?

Any at all?

What a mess these role players have created.

hungryjoe
9/03/2012 12:06pm,
The Tsuki isn't a "lunge punch". That's LARPers holding their arms out thinking they understand a technique they do not only to have Tori beat Uke senseless while he holds said arm out.

I wasn't aware MMA took place in a ring outside of PRIDE. And it shares the same principals as a shoot.

Any understanding of those principals?

Any at all?

What a mess these role players have created.

Sure. Plenty of knowledge on the principals and more than a fair amount of practice.

Video?

PointyShinyBurn
9/03/2012 12:07pm,
Do you have a link to your record or some video of your fights, Gigatron?

baby_cart
9/03/2012 12:08pm,
Of course! It's so simple! It's not that the technique sucks, it's that everyone is doing it wrong.


why are they doing it wrong? :Thoughtful:

where are the teachers? are they supposed to correct? :Suspicious:

so who gets it? :DudeComeOn:

Gigatron
9/03/2012 12:09pm,
Not yet, do you film your training? I really don't feel the need to do so. In fact I don't know any camps who film training outside of making promo videos lol.

Since you know the principals, name one.

There's at least three that make the Tsuki work that are the exact same ones for shooting in.

Your martial arts knowledge is now on blast son.

Gigatron
9/03/2012 12:12pm,
why are they doing it wrong? :Thoughtful:

where are the teachers? are they supposed to correct? :Suspicious:

so who gets it? :DudeComeOn: I'll tell you once HungryJoe proves his amazing prowess of martial arts knowledge that apparently understands the Tsuki.

Most 'teachers' think it's a basic punch and skip over the details if they even know them.

The only people I've ever known to correct these yoohoos doing the Tsuki wrong are Doron, Hatsumi, my Shidoshi or AKBAN instructors. Outside of that I've never seen it.

And yeah, I posted one of my fights in the thread titled "Ninjutsu" that got moved to YMAS because It Is Fake is salty at me for some reason and seems to think that body armor isn't used in MMA training camps or randori.

PointyShinyBurn
9/03/2012 12:16pm,
So when you say you "do pro MMA" you mean that you train at an MMA gym, not that you have fought professionally?

When you ask someone to enumerate the "principals" of a shot, what exactly do you mean? You could say penetration, set-up/misdirection, keeping your back straight?

ashkelon
9/03/2012 12:16pm,
The Tsuki isn't a "lunge punch".

Wait ... Hatsumi and the Japanese Shihan are doing it wrong?
Are you Toda Sensei?


MODS can this be culled to YMAS? Apologies.

hungryjoe
9/03/2012 12:17pm,
Not yet, do you film your training? I really don't feel the need to do so. In fact I don't know any camps who film training outside of making promo videos lol.

Since you know the principals, name one.

There's at least three that make the Tsuki work that are the exact same ones for shooting in.

Your martial arts knowledge is now on blast son.

Movement starts from the back foot. A push you arrogant bastard. Utilized in everything from wrestling to tennis.

Son? I'm probably old enough to be your father.

How about providing some record of your professional fighting prowess to this old fart and the others reading your chest thumping tripe?

hungryjoe
9/03/2012 12:22pm,
And, if I may inquire, who is your shidoshi?

Gigatron
9/03/2012 12:22pm,
So when you say you "do pro MMA" you mean that you train at an MMA gym, not that you have fought professionally?

When you ask someone to enumerate the "principals" of a shot, what exactly do you mean? You could say penetration, set-up/misdirection, keeping your back straight?

What the Hell? Bro, I can't make it any clearer. Maybe you missed something. I just said I fight professionally and posted one of my matches.

Back to your other statement, since HungryJoe didn't answer yet. You named several of the points that involve proper Tsuki usage, mainly set up and misdirection. The eyes can telegraph movement from the shoulders, this is common when shitty wrestlers go to grab your legs, you see it a mile away. Keeping your shoulders on a horizontal plane doesn't trigger the early warning from your eyes as easily, so it's set up/misdirection that makes it work, it's not done as an opening punch lol. It's done after a jab or some type of misdirection/feint. Even a bogus shin kick would misdirect them to shincheck and thus stay in one spot temporarily allowing you to spear right through them with the strike, a proper tsuki is basically a hidden cross utilizing all of the body weight moving forward and then stopped upon impact to prepare the next strike/move/escape/whatever [ in most situations, there are some weapon situations that use a different weight ratio ].

EDIT: You posted while I was typing ; ). And yeah you probably are a hell of a lot older than me. And my Shidoshi has nothing to do with my view points or internet debates so his name will remain out of this for respect.