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bigfatbrute
4/19/2004 10:56am,
hi
i ran a few searches on this site about this guy used his name, and website but nothing came up, seems to me like he's full of **** and he likes talking it to,
bullshido?
http://www.wingtsun.nl/WT-nwaw.htm


ps: dont flame me if hes already been mentioned i really tried the search function

bigfatbrute
4/19/2004 11:43am,
QUOTING THEIR SITE
"In order to defeat an experienced wrestler on the ground using wrestling techniques, a WT-follower would need to devote as much time to the dissimilar and strength-intensive sport of wrestling as a wrestler. We are WT-people, however, and we neither wish to become wrestlers nor to falsify our WT by mixing it with wrestling techniques. And neither is there any reason for doing so."

"As a third hurdle, the grappler must also successfully avoid you "clinging arms", elbows and knees in order to apply a hold and execute a throw. Then he must overcome the WT-anti-armlock and counterthrow techniques contained in the three Chi-Gerk programmes. By this time I have to conclude that you are not dealing with a normal "grappler", but with a follower of the Leung Ting system whose nationality (Turkish, Iranian…) gives him a strong affinity for his national sport"


"This means that a grappler must first get past your kicks to the knees and genitals. To do this he needs first-class footwork to bridge the distance, i.e. up to the standard of a WT-expert.

Secondly he must get past your chain-punches, eye jabs and strikes to the throat. Only a WT-expert who has mastered the 3rd form or the wooden dummy techniques can do this systematically."

LOOK AT THE PICTURES ON THEIR SITE

bigfatbrute
4/19/2004 12:08pm,
nope i think that they are completely fukn insane.
why do these people always do TMA's

Kiozz
4/19/2004 12:14pm,
It's hard to believe some poeple still talk this **** after more than 10 years of televised MMA events.

garbanzo
4/19/2004 12:18pm,
From their site:

Althrough I express the view that wrestlers have significant advantages over boxers and karateka in my book "On Single Combat" (Vom Zweikampf / Het duel), my faith in WT is such that I am sure a good WT-fighter who is well-versed in anti-grappling methods will easily frustrate a wrestling attack by means of Chi-Sao reactions plus punches, thrusts and kicks.

Faith is powerful.

Can I get a witness?

Das Moose
4/19/2004 1:46pm,
I think the thing is, Kernspecht is an experienced wrestler like he says, who could know better what a wrestler's weaknesses and strategies are than a wrestler himself? For all we know he's telling the complete truth about Leung Ting's and his own experiences against wrestlers - being able to frustrate them with Chi Sao techniques before they even touch him - we're talking about a gifted wrestler here, who has been training in WT for a multitude of years to the extent where it's the main focus in his life. Seems pretty reasonable to me that he's able to beat wrestlers in a fight. Obviously proof is needed before we accept this, but assuming he is telling the truth, it's not too unreasonable to be plausible.

The big problem is the WT students who have never done any other art, and have their Sifu telling them day in and day out that with Anti-grappling and high WT ability, they never need to know how to groundfight because they will destroy a grappler before he even comes near them, despite them never having the opportunity to spar/train with a real grappler. Big problem.

Like most things, it can be solved by putting on some gloves and doing a few rounds full contact with a skilled friend from a grappling discipline. All i know is, despite being a pretty good judo player myself, when i went for a double leg throw (the same double leg that i had been able to throw a boxer with very hard after slipping his punches to the head, in a live full contact MMA scenario) with a WT friend of mine, he did some weird footwork thing and kneed me (relatively gently) in the jaw. Even tho he was going much softer than he could have, i was still out of the fight for a good ten minutes. Had a hell of a headache.

*shrug* then again, our Sifu is a wrestling coach himself.

MM4Guy
4/19/2004 2:57pm,
Oh no! Wouldn't want to taint your martial art by practicing *GASP*GRAPPLING*GASP*GASP*

Chupacabra
4/19/2004 3:09pm,
I am very proficient in standup arts and practiced anti-grappling techniques for a good while.......

all I have to say is this....... grapplers have anti-anti-grappling techniques right? well then you have either 1 of 3 choices......

1. Learn how to fucking wrestle
2. Be 1000 times better at your art than everyone else is (witch isn't very logical)
3. Get so strong that you can crush bones just by squeezing them with your hands or you can rip out organs with your bare hands

If you don't want to do any of those you better hope that a grappler doesn't grab you before you knock him out.........

SunTzu
4/19/2004 4:23pm,
The way I've seen shots done it would be pretty difficult to actually kick a wrestler in the groin, and in most cases physically impossible. Humans just aren't built to kick a shooting wrestler in the nuts.

BlackBeltNow
4/19/2004 4:59pm,
Originally posted by bigfatbrute
"As a third hurdle, the grappler must also successfully avoid you "clinging arms", elbows and knees in order to apply a hold and execute a throw. Then he must overcome the WT-anti-armlock and counterthrow techniques contained in the three Chi-Gerk programmes.

this sounds liek some kungfu movie dialog: to overcome a eagle palm stylist you must not allow their crane grib manipulate your 5 style tiger kick chuan

http://www.wingtsun.nl/Pictures/KKernsp8.jpg

dramaboy
4/19/2004 5:14pm,
LT and KK are crooks. Period. End of story. Seeyalater...

KK was a PRO wrestler in the seventies. He may have done some local level greco-roman. But if there was a public record it would be all over his site so I assume there is none.


LT doesn't fight. He never did. He only does demos where he effortlessly defeats dozens of his students.

EWTO is a marketing scheme, successfull big time in Germany, quite successfull in Europe.

And every bloody bit of it belongs here on Bullshido.

Tomas

bigfatbrute
4/19/2004 9:04pm,
glad i posted them here then, i was expecting a big flameing because i couldnt beleive that they hadnt been investigated before. look from what i can see of that kernschpecdt he would be mauled in a fight with a good wrestler and he doesnt even hvae any cauliflowers he cant be a seasoned wrestler, and if you are getting kneed in the head when doing doubles you head is way to low and your body probably isnt straight. is asia still in germany, maybe he would be able to check out there anti grappling.

SLJ
4/20/2004 4:12am,
I can't really decide what's worse. The fact that they believe this stuff, or that they constantly refer to it as "Anti-Grappling". It doesn't matter if you do something in a stupid fashion, it's still the same original thing you were doing.

Meex
4/20/2004 4:40am,
Originally posted by drummerboy
And every bloody bit of it belongs here on Bullshido.
Darn Right!
Bastards!

`~\

bigfatbrute
4/20/2004 9:10am,
do we have any fighters in germany that would be willing to pound some bullshidoka's these people piss me off

Robertok78
4/20/2004 3:07pm,
<edited due to huge picture making scrolling a pain>