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tmorterlaing
4/11/2012 3:42pm,
Im sure there's probably been a few posts about stuff like this, but I did a search and couldnt find it specifically!

So, people (here) seem to like practical throws from Judo, which Jujitsu has. When possible in a self defence situation, people (here) seem to like some locks, like kote gaeshi. And good strikes are almost always liked- now Jujitsu has all of that right?

So my question is, is it actually good for self defence?

Im inclined to defend it because it's my primary martial art, but I've seen and read a few things which makes me a little nervous if it came to actually using it- Ive only ever had to once, a few years back, but the guy was wasted drunk and I just put him into a wrist lock which was easy cos it took him about 5 seconds to realise what was happening...

So yeah, help?

mike321
4/11/2012 3:49pm,
If you train in an "alive" manner, yes. Arts like muay Thai, judo, brazillion jiu jitsu, boxing, and wrestling are not magic. Their superiority lies in alive training. That's it. If you compete, even better.

Permalost
4/11/2012 4:28pm,
When you say jujitsu, do you mean BJJ, or JJJ, or SCJJ etc?

tmorterlaing
4/11/2012 4:31pm,
When you say jujitsu, do you mean BJJ, or JJJ, or SCJJ etc? I mean JJJ, although I also train in BJJ (but less regularly) so as far as self defence goes I should be able to at least survive if a fight went to the floor. SCJJ- is that Southern Cross? That's a new one to me, hope that admission doesnt get me totally ripped into...

Lindz
4/11/2012 4:33pm,
small circle jujitsu

tmorterlaing
4/11/2012 4:34pm,
Oh RIGHT, yeah I actually knew what that was, stupid me. I had a go at that at one point, quite liked it :D But yes, 'standard' Jujitsu :D

Petter
4/11/2012 4:39pm,
Im inclined to defend it because it's my primary martial art, but I've seen and read a few things which makes me a little nervous if it came to actually using it- Ive only ever had to once, a few years back
Those who practice arts like BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing, wrestling, judo, sambo, and so on don’t have to be so nervous about wondering whether they can actually use it, because (as you should know) we do it all the time. Typically I have to actually apply my BJJ or (feeble) judo skills on people actively trying to prevent me every time I go to train.

Of course context matters and I recognise, as a pure grappler, that I would be in trouble if you added strikes to the mixture. If you are concerned about this, just make sure that you regularly spar in circumstances that provide a good, alive simulation of the type of combat you actually want to prepare yourself for.


A grappling match: Live rolling, judo-style randori, &c.
A fistfight: Live boxing sparring
A more or less anything-goes unarmed fight: MMA sparring
&c.


...people (here) seem to like some locks, like kote gaeshi.

[…]

but the guy was wasted drunk and I just put him into a wrist lock which was easy cos it took him about 5 seconds to realise what was happening...Actually, people here tend to make fun of wristlocks quite a bit. Search for the phrase “grab my wrist” and enjoy.

Can you apply wristlocks to people who don’t just stand there for five seconds? Do you practice doing it? See this thread (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=113379) for some discussion.

tmorterlaing
4/11/2012 4:42pm,
Those who practice arts like BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing, wrestling, judo, sambo, and so on don’t have to be so nervous about wondering whether they can actually use it, because (as you should know) we do it all the time. Typically I have to actually apply my BJJ or (feeble) judo skills on people actively trying to prevent me every time I go to train.

Of course context matters and I recognise, as a pure grappler, that I would be in trouble if you added strikes to the mixture. If you are concerned about this, just make sure that you regularly spar in circumstances that provide a good, alive simulation of the type of combat you actually want to prepare yourself for.


A grappling match: Live rolling, judo-style randori, &c.
A fistfight: Live boxing sparring
A more or less anything-goes unarmed fight: MMA sparring
&c.

Actually, people here tend to make fun of wristlocks quite a bit. Search for the phrase “grab my wrist” and enjoy.

Can you apply wristlocks to people who don’t just stand there for five seconds? Do you practice doing it? See this thread (http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=113379) for some discussion.

Re wristlocks- haha yeah no worries, was very aware theyre usually something which simply does not work normally- the only time we ever use them is as a restraint after beating the shite out of them :D

Uglybugly
4/11/2012 5:38pm,
if you are able to use your skills against trained opponents that is trying to fight you then you will be able to use your skills on random untrained people.

Petter
4/11/2012 5:41pm,
So what mike321, Uglybugly, and myself are all saying is that the answer to your question

is it actually good for self defence?
lies in your answer to our question:

Is your jujutsu training alive?

You seem to avoid answering this question…

Stu-Jitsu
4/11/2012 5:46pm,
Try this: you do a bit of BJJ, right?

Ask yourself if the way you train JJJ is the same as the way you train BJJ. By this I mean, in BJJ you probably drill a technique with a partner, then steadily increase the level of resistance, then probably spar a bit at the end (in an alive manner).

If so, fine. If not, don't rely on your JJJ in a fight on confrontation.

Permalost
4/11/2012 6:08pm,
Jiu jitsu aside, being able to make something work on a really drunk guy doesn't mean its a great technique. You can take them down with an untrained hearty shove.

tmorterlaing
4/11/2012 6:17pm,
Jiu jitsu aside, being able to make something work on a really drunk guy doesn't mean its a great technique. You can take them down with an untrained hearty shove.
Yeah I know, thats why I made a point about saying he was drunk and couldn't react slowly- if he was sober he could have definitely resisted it, he was just being a dick so I grabbed him to throw him out :D

Regarding the training live thing, I dont actually know at this club yet- Ive just moved here and started a new place, so before they started trying to take my head off with committed strikes they wanted to see what I could do. Judging by the way two yellow belts were training (corner of my eye) it seems to be pretty full on, they were going pretty hard at it. Only a few sessions will tell me if that means they were ACTUALLY going at it, or just going through a series of movements...

The 'self defence' style JJJ I used to train in in Brisbane was full on though- essentially went 'practice technique a few times slow, then just do it and the attacker resists if he/she can', which I think was pretty good. Being self defence there wasn't that much time 'resistance' (because most 'moves' only lasted about 3 seconds max- it wasn't a fight after all), but if the defender fucked up, the attacker carried on, and resisted if the opportunity arose.

Petter
4/11/2012 6:20pm,
So, pre-scripted, ergo not alive.

tmorterlaing
4/11/2012 6:37pm,
Is there a definition of what constitutes "alive" around here? Cos I wouldn't call them per-scripted as such- I mean, if the defender fucks up the attacker is allowed to do anything they can (throw an elbow, throw them, whatever)... I mean, if 'alive' means that EVERY time you go through something the assailant can throw anything; then I don't see how that will teach you defence against that specific thing...

Petter
4/11/2012 6:45pm,
It does have a specific meaning, basically expounded here:


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2068450760833041053

Addressing your point more directly, I’m not suggesting that there is no place for limited drills where, say, I get to throw one thing and you have to defend against it. Drills to build specific skills are good. But the ability to perform techniques against an opponent who actually wants to get you, rather than attack you with an expected attack at an expected time, requires training under conditions that involve an opponent who is trying to beat you. Not “act as attacker” to your defence, not resist your technique, but try to win, by using techniques you don’t expect, choosing the best time to come in, whatever the ruleset allows. Then it’s no longer a drill, but sparring. And this is necessary.

I don’t care how many times you’ve drilled a scripted response (or a collection of scripted responses) to, say, my right cross: if I’m really trying to get you and I’m just faking that punch while actually going for a hook or dropping for a double-leg, what you need is the ability to sense timing and adapt.