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Eladar
3/22/2012 1:34pm,
Hi,

I'm new to both this forum and MA in general.

I figure for the first while at least I'll most likely lurk an AWFUL lot more than post, but if I feel I can contribute, I'll sure give it a shot.

I train in Bujinkan, and yes, I've read a lot of the stuff about it on this site, but from knowing people that have trained at the school I now do, this definitely is a lot more "alive" than most of you seem to think.

Generally, we put in as much resistance as both parties are happy with (in some cases full resistance). Personally, the only time I will go with a lock, is if it feels like my arm will break if I resist further. This is an attitude shared by several in my dojo, and we all generally leave a bit bruised and battered after a session.

So yeah, like I said, just thought I'd throw myself into it and post.

As a question:

What are some absolute must read threads that aren't stickies? I've read all the stickies in the areas of the forum I can see myself participating in, but was just wondering if there was any extra key reading to really get a feel for the forums. I've been reading through a lot of older threads, especially those concerning Bujinkan already.

Cheers

Ben

SteveM
3/22/2012 1:43pm,
Welcome Ben!

"Aliveness" is not just about resistance, it's about both sides earnestly trying to win. So while you are resisting that wristlock, are you also using your other hand to punch the guy in the face? Gotta get out of that "Uke" mode to be "alive" IMHO.

Permalost
3/22/2012 1:48pm,
Welcome to Bullshido.


I train in Bujinkan, and yes, I've read a lot of the stuff about it on this site, but from knowing people that have trained at the school I now do, this definitely is a lot more "alive" than most of you seem to think.

Generally, we put in as much resistance as both parties are happy with (in some cases full resistance). Personally, the only time I will go with a lock, is if it feels like my arm will break if I resist further. This is an attitude shared by several in my dojo, and we all generally leave a bit bruised and battered after a session.
To clarify: aliveness is not the same thing as training hard. In fact, in BJJ, an art very high on the liveometer, there is a saying "tap early and tap often."

Aliveness is more about free play as opposed to choreographed techniques. If you are doing choreographed techniques and you add in extra torque, some resistance, hard strikes and throws, loud kiais etc, that doesn't actually equate to aliveness.

What kind of sparring do you guys do? Rules, level of contact, gear etc.

Eladar
3/22/2012 1:55pm,
Welcome to Bullshido.


To clarify: aliveness is not the same thing as training hard. In fact, in BJJ, an art very high on the liveometer, there is a saying "tap early and tap often."

Aliveness is more about free play as opposed to choreographed techniques. If you are doing choreographed techniques and you add in extra torque, some resistance, hard strikes and throws, loud kiais etc, that doesn't actually equate to aliveness.

What kind of sparring do you guys do? Rules, level of contact, gear etc.

It seems I've misread what "alive"ness is slightly then. I admit I also thought it was to do with the amount of resistance put in. I will admit that no, we don't "spar" as such, but a couple of us will "fight the technique". By that, I will know what attack you should be doing to me, and I will uke it, but as well as putting in actual resistance, I will try and get out of it in other possible ways (read: throwing a punch or a kick in there just to see how you work with it). I class this as different to "sparring" mostly because it is still a case of one person being the uke, and just resisting in a different way.

SteveM, I hope that also answers your question.

For clarification, we don't all do that, and not all the time. But once we have done the technique a bit, we'll give it a bit of a go. Having not been there very long (I joined in January) I haven't seen an awful lot of this yet. But I can also promise we don't just fall over and comply the moment someone touches us.

Cheers

Ben

It is Fake
3/22/2012 1:56pm,
Hi and welcome to bullshido.


Good job reading the stickies as that will help you post and have a better experience.

What exactly are looking for with this question? There are must read threads, but they may not appeal to you or only appeal to me.

Bujinkan threads are all over the place. The best concern these two posters:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=55139
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35662

Search out threads by Stygens and Plasma as well.

For lolz:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=36461&page=1

It is Fake
3/22/2012 2:02pm,
Also, this video will help greatly with your understanding of "aliveness."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imjmLWj5WCU

Eladar
3/22/2012 2:07pm,
Hi and welcome to bullshido.


Good job reading the stickies as that will help you post and have a better experience.

What exactly are looking for with this question? There are must read threads, but they may not appeal to you or only appeal to me.

Bujinkan threads are all over the place. The best concern these two posters:
(link removed so i can actually post this)
(link removed so i can actually post this)

Search out threads by Stygens and Plasma as well.

For lolz:
(link removed so i can actually post this)


Sorry if I was a little vague. I meant what threads kind of show the real "feel" of the forum so to speak. Stickies are just a default for me to read in forums (I've taken part in a few forums for various other subjects.)

Thank you for the Bujinkan threads linked. And for the names to keep an eye on, I've already read a bit of Stygens stuff and am working through a lot of older threads try to learn stuff. As for the "Diary of a Ninja thread", I've been glancing through it for the last couple of days (let's be honest, it's pretty long) and many lulz have been had.

As someone studying Bujinkan, I feel almost compelled to say this: I AM NOT A NINJA! Nor am I a ninja in training.

As my instructor has said before: "We are not ninja, or ninja's in training. There is a reason Ninpo is not in the name. We study 9 different schools, only 3 of which are even ATTRIBUTED to ninja, and we don't actually study 2 of those."

I'm not a "ninjer wannabe", it's just that having looked at a lot of stuff, I liked the mix of armed/unarmed that Bujinkan seems to offer, and so far I am having a blast! And no, I'm not black belt yet ;)

It is Fake
3/22/2012 2:13pm,
Sorry if I was a little vague. I meant what threads kind of show the real "feel" of the forum so to speak. Stickies are just a default for me to read in forums (I've taken part in a few forums for various other subjects.) Okay.




As someone studying Bujinkan, I feel almost compelled to say this: I AM NOT A NINJA! Nor am I a ninja in training.

As my instructor has said before: "We are not ninja, or ninja's in training. There is a reason Ninpo is not in the name. We study 9 different schools, only 3 of which are even ATTRIBUTED to ninja, and we don't actually study 2 of those."

I'm not a "ninjer wannabe", it's just that having looked at a lot of stuff, I liked the mix of armed/unarmed that Bujinkan seems to offer, and so far I am having a blast! And no, I'm not black belt yet ;)I provided those threads because of your OP. Many of the things you misconstrued about Aliveness are addressed in those two threads

PizDoff
3/22/2012 2:17pm,
A sticky for stickies may be a good idea as the TMA forums get merged.


Welcome to the forum Eladar.
I've done a little JJJ so I'm curious what stand up lock combinations are working for you?

Eladar
3/22/2012 2:18pm,
I provided those threads because of your OP. Many of the things you misconstrued about Aliveness are addressed in those two threads


Yeah, thanks. That "I'm not a ninja" thing wasn't aimed at you just in case that's what you thought.

Just thought I'd clear it up before some of the Bujinkan haters decide to jump on me in here.

It is Fake
3/22/2012 2:48pm,
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=108700

Here's a thread full of our favorite trolls.

alex
3/22/2012 3:01pm,
It seems I've misread what "alive"ness is slightly then. I admit I also thought it was to do with the amount of resistance put in. I will admit that no, we don't "spar" as such, but a couple of us will "fight the technique". By that, I will know what attack you should be doing to me, and I will uke it, but as well as putting in actual resistance, I will try and get out of it in other possible ways (read: throwing a punch or a kick in there just to see how you work with it). I class this as different to "sparring" mostly because it is still a case of one person being the uke, and just resisting in a different way.

SteveM, I hope that also answers your question.

For clarification, we don't all do that, and not all the time. But once we have done the technique a bit, we'll give it a bit of a go. Having not been there very long (I joined in January) I haven't seen an awful lot of this yet. But I can also promise we don't just fall over and comply the moment someone touches us.

Cheers

Ben

the trap that you can fall into with things like this is the non competitive aspect of it. competition is the only surefire way of testing what you do. without that, even at a basic club level, you are setting up for failure. there is only a certain level of "resisting the lock" you can go to in the scenario you are talking about, and quite frankly it isn't far enough. when your only litmus test of how effective a technique is comprises of what your coach tells you you're stepping on some pretty dangerous ground. reading your post reminds me of basically every person who has ever joined this site and who was new to a non competitive art-

we arent like most dojos,
we train hard,
we get bruises,

etc.

also this line-

this definitely is a lot more "alive" than most of you seem to think
remember what this site is about. a large number of older posters started out exactly as you have. i spent from the ages of 5-16 doing karate and kung fu before i started actually training and i thought EXACTLY like you do now. i cant even count the number of clubs ive been to that are non competitive, and apart from some differences in techniques and focus, they can all be generalised as teaching you things, but never putting them together cohesively. to me its like any sport. if i for instance train all the different aspects of rugby- passing, kicking, tackling etc- but never actually practice it all together in a friendly game, how will i do when the match comes around? (the answer btw is you would get fucking murdered) no different to doing a martial art.

Eladar
3/22/2012 3:29pm,
the trap that you can fall into with things like this is the non competitive aspect of it. competition is the only surefire way of testing what you do. without that, even at a basic club level, you are setting up for failure. there is only a certain level of "resisting the lock" you can go to in the scenario you are talking about, and quite frankly it isn't far enough. when your only litmus test of how effective a technique is comprises of what your coach tells you you're stepping on some pretty dangerous ground. reading your post reminds me of basically every person who has ever joined this site and who was new to a non competitive art-

we arent like most dojos,
we train hard,
we get bruises,

etc.

also this line-

remember what this site is about. a large number of older posters started out exactly as you have. i spent from the ages of 5-16 doing karate and kung fu before i started actually training and i thought EXACTLY like you do now. i cant even count the number of clubs ive been to that are non competitive, and apart from some differences in techniques and focus, they can all be generalised as teaching you things, but never putting them together cohesively. to me its like any sport. if i for instance train all the different aspects of rugby- passing, kicking, tackling etc- but never actually practice it all together in a friendly game, how will i do when the match comes around? (the answer btw is you would get fucking murdered) no different to doing a martial art.

I understand what you're saying. And after settling in a bit more where I currently am, I'm considering take up another art that IS more on the competitive side (although I'm not sure what I'd go for yet). But at the same time, I'm really enjoying what I'm doing. Maybe I'm naive because I'm new to the martial arts world, but in my opinion, if I'm enjoying myself, then I don't mind.

If, after taking up a more competitive art to supplement the Bujinkan, I decide that BBT is no longer for me, then that is the case. I figure it's as good a place as any to start, and even if a few bad habits get picked up, I'm the kind of person that once they're beaten out of me in a more competitive art once, I wont do the same thing again.