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AnTi Her0
3/21/2012 12:13am,
Hope I'm not posting in the wrong forum. But someone showed me this video, and I wasn't sure how to respond. It almost looks like a demonstration, and not a live drill/sparring. Or maybe it is, and the wrestler dudes grips and hooks just suck? And I don't know if he's a wrestler, thats just my educated guess.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIc5NIfrnJs&list=PL39E78FF625CD8B66&index=6&feature=plpp_video

Goju - Joe
3/21/2012 12:18am,
Nothing the wrestler did looked like wrestling, changing levels, head position, or anything.

Brazzzuka
3/21/2012 12:19am,
Stupid demo it's fake

Goju - Joe
3/21/2012 12:22am,
The you tube page doesn't describe the guy as a wrestler. So a good example of tai chi against a crappy grappler.

I have seen BTW video of push hands competition where the Tai chi looks a lot like greco wrestling with leg sweeps, so there is something good there.

Rivington
3/21/2012 12:54am,
The Chen Bing vids were discussed here:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74248

AnTi Her0
3/21/2012 3:57am,
The Chen Bing vids were discussed here:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74248

oh ok, cool. Sorry, I didn't know.

battlefields
3/25/2012 1:03am,
craptacular,next............

Is that your expert opinion?

Jim_Jude
3/25/2012 1:38am,
looks like the Taijiquan "Master" brought his own wrestler to the demo.

Clinchfighter
3/25/2012 3:12am,
No wrestler would dance like that, and then allow themselves to be thrown halfway across a cage. Fake.

DdlR
3/27/2012 1:24am,
For what it's worth, "Taijiquan 'Master' vs. wrestler" is just the title of this thread; the description on the YouTube clip explains that


This was a seminar clip of Master Chen Bing's seminar in Miami (June, 2008) and he showed applications of Chen Family Taijiquan.

So, it isn't a fight, and there's no apparent claim that the opponent was a wrestler. That said, IMO it isn't at all fake; it's an expert demonstration of timing and body mechanics.

ccwscott
3/27/2012 2:35pm,
For what it's worth, "Taijiquan 'Master' vs. wrestler" is just the title of this thread; the description on the YouTube clip explains that



So, it isn't a fight, and there's no apparent claim that the opponent was a wrestler. That said, IMO it isn't at all fake; it's an expert demonstration of timing and body mechanics.

That's not expertise. It's compliance combined with okay but not great timing and body mechanics.

I read some of the other thread and for all the nutriding and drama I think hedgehogey had the right of it. Even someone who hasn't practicing throwing or take downs at all has basic reactions to being pushed off balance. Most will plant a foot to get their balance back. Most will push back, or turn away, or drop their weight. Just look at the first throw he does. The opponent does, in fact, plant his foot down when offbalance starts, but instead of using good timing and body mechanics to bring the throw forward where the opponent has no ability to resist, he just muscles hard up and over the foot until the guy jumps for him, so much so that the thrower has to spread his feet ridiculously far apart, to the point that if the "opponent" had so much as breathed aggressively in his direction the thrower would have tipped over. This is the kind of thing that in an actual competitive match you hope your opponent tries something so stupid.

There are all kinds of things he could have done, pulled the person forward and used his hips as a lever and a way to unroot him while maintaining forward motion, pull foward and swing like a hinge out of the way so you can get somewhat behind and continue the forward push, push the guy back the other way and before his weight shifts onto the other foot - with expert timing, you can put him on his ass before he knows a throw has started. Or even go with pushing that direction but trap the arm, get behind the leg, get chest to chest, or use your body weight to force him down. That would be sloppy and not a great throw, but a whole hell of a lot better than "push and then push harder"

That's not to knock "push and then push harder" in the right context, but it's not a demonstration of expertise.

DdlR
3/27/2012 3:09pm,
If you say so.

It is Fake
3/27/2012 3:12pm,
That's not expertise. It's compliance combined with okay but not great timing and body mechanics. Read his post again and see that you are wrong. If not, prove two things
1) That CB is not an expert.

2) Then prove it isn't an expert demonstration.

ccwscott
3/27/2012 7:06pm,
Read his post again and see that you are wrong.

If not, prove two things
1) That CB is not an expert.

2) Then prove it isn't an expert demonstration.

He could be an expert in all kinds of things as far as I know. Chess. Badminton. Low horse stances. But that wasn't a demonstration of expert timing and body mechanics for throwing a resisting opponent. I already spent enough time explaining why, so unless you can be more specific, I'm not going to chase after what I think your objections might be.

It is Fake
3/27/2012 7:08pm,
He could be an expert in all kinds of things as far as I know. Chess. Badminton. Low horse stances. But that wasn't a demonstration of expert timing and body mechanics for throwing a resisting opponent. I already spent enough time explaining why. I'm not going to chase after what I think your objections might be.Then don't and be wrong. You can't prove he isn't an expert in what he does nor can you say he isn't demonstrating expertise in that video.

What you tried to do was use HH's complaints to prove something erroneous.

W. Rabbit
3/27/2012 9:40pm,
But that wasn't a demonstration of expert timing and body mechanics for throwing a resisting opponent.

It wasn't supposed to be a demonstration for throwing a resisting opponent. The "wrestler" was just playing uke for some Taiji throws, if I read the background information correctly.

It's not fake...it's just a demo. Yes it's staged, no not to trick anyone....to illustrate the technique.

Plenty of judo throws are "staged", which is just another way of saying uke agrees to get thrown. This is no different. It would be trivial to take what's being shown, add resistance, and it becomes randori.