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DCM Fighter
11/20/2002 9:07pm,
The site won't let me reply again; keeps saying error,so I'm rewriting my reply.

That was a decent post by daanson, but if a guy is much bigger and stronger he could very well throw you off of him. Strength and size play a pretty big role in grappling, unless you're very highly skilled, and even then who knows. No matter how good you are, you're not immune to getting stabbed or shot in close quarters. I'm not trying to down play grappling, but that's what can happen.

If you're not grappling, or clinched with a guy at all, then you don't have to deal with his mass and strength as much because you're not grabbing onto him, or sitting on him. which when with body to body contact it makes it much easier to control you. You can move and hit him; avoid his power and duck under a bigger man's strikes and hit him back. Keeping up on your feet gives you many more options.

I think quite a few have misunderstood what I'm saying about grappling. I know you need to be able to do both, but striking is the fastest, and easier way, to end a fight.

I do practice grappling but it's only about getting back to hitting. Let's say this guy is pounding me. I shield to protect my head for a second as I rush in and grab his arms. Now that I've protected myself for that brief moment, it's back to hitting and ending the fight. If I have overhooks he can't defend hooks to his head when I release to hit. However, if the guy's much stronger, I could have trouble if I do any form of clinch. If I do some form of clinch then I'm hitting immedietly so as to avoid getting thrown around. The longer you just hold on and try to control is when the opponent could get the upper hand, if you don't take him out now, and that's usually with strikes to the head. Not to mention it's safer because of the possabilities I've talked about being in grappling/clinching range.

Those are just some of the risks of grappling period, and no one can change that. But it doesnt' mean I'll never do it. I better have a huge tactical advantage in going for a takedown to control and/or submission, because it's riskier and more things can go wrong. Grappling is just one of the many tools in the tool box. Grappling is a very tactical skill and best used in specific situations. What I mean by specific situations, look at all the fights I've been told about from grapplers. They say they take a guy down in a club or bar, and beat the crap out of the guy, WHILE IN THE MEAN TIME THE GUY'S FRIENDS ARE KICKING THE CRAP OUT OF THE GRAPPLER. The grappler's friends had to pull of the guy's friends. I've heard that redicuals story more than once. Grappling was NOT a good choice there and that proves my point. You never know if a guy's got friends around or weapons, and many BJJ guys have paid the price.

I've heard of many fights being over with one or two punhes to the head. Obviously that doens't always happen but you will stop the guy in a matter of seconds with a good flurry of strikes. That takes a lot less time than clinching and going for a choke or lock. People say it only takes a few seconds to choke someone out or break an arm. Well maybe but you have to APPLY IT FIRST and that takes time. Not to mention that when a guy pulls out a knife or gun as you're positioning yourself for that lock or choke and you get stabbed or shot when you could've ended it already by hitting the guy in the head over and over until he's not a threat anymore.

Grapplers train best case. That is what I'm trying to get across. You can do your grappling but it's risky and takes more time to end a fight than just striking.

TKD Boxer
11/20/2002 10:03pm,
This is really stupid these forums have kept going on and on and I for one am sick o it, so let drop it, this striking vs. Grapling crap is an opinion issue.


"Wrestlers need a lesson in submission, I'm the one to teach them." - Frank Shamrock

Sgt. Puntang
11/20/2002 10:11pm,
I want to grapple with someone just long enough to put my thumbs into their eye sockets.

DCM Fighter
11/20/2002 10:29pm,
How can what I say be an opinion? They're facts that I'm presenting; I'm tired of repeating myself but I want to tell everyone the truth and until everyone realises it, then I'll keep stating the facts.

PeedeeShaolin
11/20/2002 10:51pm,
You arent representing facts at all. Your representing what you THINK and what your teacher tells you.

You only have to look at oldschool NHB and watch skinny Royce Gracie throw Pat Smith down, mount him and punch his face until Smith gives up. Pat Smith was 220lbs and would kick anyone azz here in standup. Royce Gracie isn't even considered world class in BJJ.

Dochter
11/20/2002 10:53pm,
Anytime someone says "I want to tell everyone the truth" is an automatic indication that they are preaching or selling something. Two areas consisting entirely of opinion.
Everyone thinks "you" need to train for both the ground and standing. Okay?
Everyone is starting to think *you* need to go to a cult deprogramming. :P

Sheol
11/21/2002 12:00am,
DCM Fighter,

There are only two things that you do:

1. Spread DCM propoganda.
2. Sputter like a loonie when somebody bursts your bubble.

DCM Fighter
11/21/2002 6:03am,
Yeah ok. Well nothing I've said is my opinion. It's a fact that weapons can become presant in a ground attack, and the stratagies I talk of will work. But I don't care what anyone else says. I know I'm right and quite a few people agree so I'm not gonna argue anymore. People can think what they want. When they get stabbed when trying to apply a choke don't come crying to me.

Spouting like a loony...sounds more like you sheol, ,making things up as you go along. I present facts to back up what I say. I've said it's a big danger to get stabbed when in close quarters and you can't keep track of the person's hands as well, my instructor nearly got stabbed with a pencil when taking someone down and control them, that is a fact. You can fight multiples; again I know people who have done it. I've always presented facts, not opinions. Seems like many are getting fact and opinion mixed up.

Edited by - DCM Fighter on November 21 2002 05:11:53

Amir
11/21/2002 2:05pm,
At lasts a promise of silence

Would everybody here be smart enough to let it lay ????



Amir

Andy Kaufman
11/21/2002 7:16pm,
dcm fighter has many theories about fighting.

9chambers
11/22/2002 2:40am,
Cross-training is the way to go. Every expert there is pretty much agrees about that.

To argue that striking or grappling is better is like arguing over which wheel on a car you'd rather lose. The car is going to dig into the road no matter which wheel goes. If you exclusively train in striking or grappling then you are an idiot. Quit talking.

Which is more important against multiple attackers? Same answer as in single combat. Be ready for both.

Blad3
11/22/2002 4:37am,
true, I agree.

striker vs grappler 1 on 1? A majority of the time the grappler will win (see all the MMA fights, notice how a striker need to know grappling defences to be any good (V.Silva, Chuck Liddell.) Notice that in a proper street fight grappling usually ocurs (stand-up or not, on the ground) striking will only occur constantly if the two are trying to be totally egotistical, and only use striking on purpose, avoiding grappling - though it's still likely to happen. However a quick KO may occur.



Edited by - blade windu on November 22 2002 03:39:26

Edited by - blade windu on November 22 2002 03:49:16

DCM Fighter
11/22/2002 6:26am,
theorys? haha No one's learned anything. Too many closed minded people here.

frankdooks
11/22/2002 4:12pm,
striking:
"a lightweight's KO punch is like a heavyweight's jab."
Prince Nasseem vs Tyson - Tyson wins 10 out of 10 by delivering royal brain damage.

grappling:
in Judo openweight tournaments lightweights have consistently won. Kashiwazaki(under 60 kilos midget) has won openweight judo against over 85 kg players using tomoenage and groundwork. This is world level judo.

MMA involving midgets against giants:
royce gracie defs severn(more than 200 pounds easily, olympic trial level wrestler).
Mino beats Sapp(monster sized and quite skilled).
etc

exception to rule is Igor vovchanchin. In IFC fought against Fred Floyd and Paul Valerans, both are big tomato cans.

conclusion:
If midget gets armlock/choke on giant, giant still taps out.
If midget lands his 'KO punch' on giant, giant feels he has been jabbed. He then jabs back and midget dies.

Grappling is smarter choice for the midget. Unless midget plans on fighting low-quality coward giants.

CASE CLOSED

Gezere
11/22/2002 4:22pm,
Kashiwazaki is under the EXPECTION part. I give it to him he is tough! He is known for taking on pretty much anyone. But he will tell you he has to work hard against larger opponents.

It pretty much in agreement that Mino beat Sapp mainly because Sapp's stamina isn't that good (also not much diversity on his HULK SMASH method) Mino was getting punished during the fight.


Last Midget Wrestling is a great sport to watch but don't let this deter you from the number one midget passtime (no not he midget hookers) MIDGET BOWLING!!!

Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!

frankdooks
11/22/2002 4:37pm,
Yes it is not easy for a midget to take on a giant, but he still has a better chance with grappling(in particular groundwork) than he does by punching him. Because his body cannot generate much force behind his blows. But he has sufficient strength to slip in a choke.

In theory maybe Mino could possibly KO a wounded and exhausted Sapp. But that is because Mino is big enough to possibly generate hard strikes. It is indeed highly unlikely that someone of Kashiwazaki's dimunitive stature could knock out Sapp while he is sleeping. But he could pin him and choke him to death with a pillow, that failing with a front choke.