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Rashomon
3/26/2004 12:41am,
Do any of you know anything about Danzan-Ryu Jujutsu? There is a school in my area that teaches it. I watched two classes, but I have mixed feelings about it.

Here is a link to their curriculum: http://www.danzan.com/HTML/moku.html

I want to learn Judo throws, and there are no Judo schools near me. This style has many (20+?) Judo throws, which is cool. (http://www.danzan.com/gallery/album25) The instructor taught O-Goshi while I was there. He also showed how to work it from someone punching at you, which was good. He showed a few follow-ups for after tossing your opponent. They were more self-defense oriented, like breaking stuff, which I also like.

This style also teaches joint locks, which I am skeptical about. I had enough of that from my TKD / Hapkido days. Perhaps I can still find something useful from this aspect, or at least grin and bear it.

The striking seems different, at least from my MT background. This guy was teaching more sliding on angles and attacking from the side. Again, this reminded me of TKD. There was also some trapping. Later, however, the angles made more sense, because he used that to set up some of the throws, like O-Goshi. I couldn't help but wonder, however, what would happen if the other guy follows up with a combination. Still, mixing the throws in with the punches seems like a good idea.

Now, we come to the really iffy part - the harm / healing touches. I'm not sure what the deal is with that. This school also teaches massage and therapy. I think that is common for the style. I had a hard time keeping from laughing when one of the students was telling me about it. The instructor said that some of the other skills along those lines are breaking (like bricks and stuff) and walking a "live blade", whatever that is.

So, the joint locks and mysticism smell like bullshido, but the throws seem solid. Also, this instructor has an extensive and diverse background - boxing, wrestling, Judo, etc. I also found some articles about his students finishing well in state competitions, which is a good sign.

The first class I watched was small, and the instructor was working with one of his students in sparring - striking. It looked and sounded like he knows what he's talking about. Perhaps I could still work on my standup at this school. I would also like to get better at trapping, even though I'm not sure how effective it really is... or, at least how effectively a newbie can use it.

Oh, there were also some students in there that seemed to have too high a rank for the skill I saw them demonstrate.

So, there are some things that give me pause, but some things I like. I will probably take the class for a month and see how it pans out. I am curious, though, about the general concensus on this style overall.


Thanks for reading.

xero
3/26/2004 1:16am,
I study it and have the privlidge of knowing alot/and have access to important names in this art. First off they do more the just 20 judo throws a good school will have you train the full range of judo and compete.

The idea behind the harm/healing touches is taking principles from massage. The motions that can loosen a muscle up can be used to harm the area. IE ever had a bad massage and feel how uncomfortable it is? These are not dim mak moves more like pain complaint to distract just like the judo knuckle.

The breaking boards and bricks is something added in and is not part of the original cirriculm. Nor have I ever heard mention of walking a live blade. Also something that sounds added in.

If joint locks sound like BS to you dont even bother with BJJ or sub wrestling they teach alot of those.

Rashomon
3/26/2004 1:24am,
"If joint locks sound like BS to you dont even bother with BJJ or sub wrestling they teach alot of those."

I should probably have been more precise. I was referring to wrist locks from arm grabs. They even did one lock (maybe just a release) from shaking hands. In defense of wrist locks, though, I have used the releases in my very limited grappling experience, mostly while standing and fighting for a grip.

bunyip
3/26/2004 1:56am,
My first instructor was a black belt (15 years) in Danzan-Ryu and a purple in BJJ. He split class time about half and half between the two.

We never did any of the "healing touches" stuff, with the exception of one day when he choked someone out and showed us how to revive him. Most of the danzan-ryu seemed solid, a mix of judo throws (my teacher competed internationally in judo tourneys) and wristlocks. Wristlocks are something I'd like to be good at, but in my opinion the time required to master them could be better spent learning something else.

We never did any sort of breaking or trapping.

I'm surprised there are no judo schools near you. Have you looked at nearby universities to see if they offer anything?

Gezere
3/26/2004 2:45am,
I trained Danzan Ryu. about a decade ago, under Meleana Tomooka (Joseph Holk's daughter) I found it quite effective and with a Judo background I got the hang of it quickly.

Kappo (the Healing touch i think you are refering to) is common in almost all JMA that involve contact. No BS about it. It works. You be glad someone knows it when you get choked out.

xero
3/26/2004 3:03am,
Originally posted by Asia
I trained Danzan Ryu. about a decade ago, under Meleana Tomooka (Joseph Holk's daughter) I found it quite effective and with a Judo background I got the hang of it quickly.

Kappo (the Healing touch i think you are refering to) is common in almost all JMA that involve contact. No BS about it. It works. You be glad someone knows it when you get choked out.

Couldnt agree with you more about the healing touch stuff. It doesnt hurt to be the guniea pig for massage practice either.:D

Rashomon
3/26/2004 6:41am,
"I'm surprised there are no judo schools near you. Have you looked at nearby universities to see if they offer anything?"

I did look into that, but you have to be a student, alumni, or faculty, so that rules me out.

I guess I had the wrong idea about the healing touch. I figured it was something along the lines of Yellow Bamboo and the harm thing was like a "death touch". It makes more sense in terms of physiology, though. And you guys are right, a massage WOULD be nice. :) Maybe there'll be some nice rotties in the class. :)

Thanks for the input thus far. I'm excited about getting started. I'll probably start on Monday. I'll report back on my results.

Miguksaram
3/26/2004 9:41am,
Henry Okazaki (1890-1951), was born in Japan and moved to Hawaii in 1909. There, he was diagnosed with incurable tuberculosis. Okazaki studied under Yoshimatsu Tanaka and "started to practice Jujutsu in earnest and in defiance of death." Whether or not it was due to his frantic devotion to Jujutsu, Okazaki's tuberculosis healed and developed a strong, iron-like body. He believed that he owed his life to Jujutsu and devoted the rest of it to the teaching and promotion of the art. Okazaki mastered various Jujutsu techniques being taught at the Yoshin- Ryu, Iwaga-Ryu and Kosogabe-Ryu schools. He then combined these systems with Karate techniques from the Ryukyu Islands and the knife techniques of the Philippines to form the Danzan-Ryu school of Jujutsu. Danzan are the Chinese characters that denote the Hawaiian islands, thus Danzan-Ryu is the Hawaiian school of Jujutsu.

In addition to the martial systems, Okazaki studied all the resuscitation arts of Kappo and Seifukujutsu, the Japanese art of physical adjustment and restoration. Okazaki firmly believed that one of the greatest virtues of Jujutsu was its techniques of restoration from disabling blows. Okazaki was one of the first teachers to break from tradition and teach Japanese martial arts to non-Japanese. In fact, it is reported that in 1922, Okazaki taught Judo to two students, Dr. Baldwin and Chief Fatoio. Okazaki believed that everyone should have the opportunity to learn Jujutsu, regardless of their heritage.

Okazaki felt that his was the most comprehensive form of Jujutsu because it took what he believed were the optimum approaches to self-defense and combined them into one school. He was also an avid promoter of sport Judo and Sumo in Hawaii.O ne of Okazaki's dreams was to have a Danzan-Ryu school in every state of the union, which is today becoming a reality. On July 12, 1951, Henry Seishiro Okazaki died from the effects of a stroke. However, his influence in the arts will live on forever.

patfromlogan
3/27/2004 7:16pm,
http://www.highsierrajujitsu.com/Graphics/orm_fdr.jpg
Okazaki (with the head band) doing his thing on President Roosevelt.

Rashomon
3/27/2004 10:44pm,
Teddy did grappling, didn't he? Was it with Okazaki, or was this just a "guest appearance"?

patfromlogan
3/28/2004 12:05am,
The pic is of Franklin D.??

ravenink
3/28/2004 12:11am,
I don't know much about the style, but if you already know MT and BJJ continuing to work on those while learning Judo throws and some alternate striking philosophies (just don't start doing jump spinning back kicks :-p) could have some very positive results I'd imagine.

Jack O'Neill
7/20/2006 2:27pm,
Teddy went to Okazaki for massage therapy. If he did other training, I don't know. My sensei in Danzan Ryu was taught by Michael Lynch, who was taught by Tony Maran, who was Taught by Okazaki. A bit of a line (which is really important in the Danzan Ryu community) but you get good history that way.

MadeOfOlives
7/21/2006 9:23am,
Compare:


Henry Okazaki (1890-1951), was born in Japan and moved to Hawaii in 1909. There, he was diagnosed with incurable tuberculosis. Okazaki studied under Yoshimatsu Tanaka and "started to practice Jujutsu in earnest and in defiance of death." Whether or not it was due to his frantic devotion to Jujutsu, Okazaki's tuberculosis healed and developed a strong, iron-like body. He believed that he owed his life to Jujutsu and devoted the rest of it to the teaching and promotion of the art. Okazaki mastered various Jujutsu techniques being taught at the Yoshin- Ryu, Iwaga-Ryu and Kosogabe-Ryu schools. He then combined these systems with Karate techniques from the Ryukyu Islands and the knife techniques of the Philippines to form the Danzan-Ryu school of Jujutsu. Danzan are the Chinese characters that denote the Hawaiian islands, thus Danzan-Ryu is the Hawaiian school of Jujutsu.

To this (from the Danzen-ryu website that often comes up as an ad on bullshido)
http://www.fluidfilm.com/jujitsu/history.html

Professor "Henry" Seishiro Okazaki

Professor Okazaki was born in 1890 in Japan. As traditional Samurai social structures were breaking down during the advent of the Meji Era, Okazaki's family suffered financial loss, prompting Seishiro to travel abroad in search of opportunity. He arrived in Hawaii in 1906 at the age of 16. By then, Hawaii had become a popular and hopeful destination for Japanese.

Okazaki was diagnosed with tuberculosis at 19, which in an age before antibiotics, was a grave message. He began to study Judo with all his might, and 2 years later he amazed everyone by recovering from his ailments. Convinced that Judo had been the source of his recovery, he dedicated himself to learning the martial arts and healing systems of the masters in Hawaii. He studied Judo, Jujitsu, Karate, Filipino knife fighting, Kung Fu, and the secret art of Hawaiian Lua, as well as Spanish Dirk throwing, western boxing and wrestling.

Is this Bullshido? No. Did the guy do a lot of martial arts? yes . Do we see here an example of the difference between marketing for "traditional arts" versus more modern ones? yes, sort of.

ec

seeker of truth
7/21/2006 11:49pm,
Make note that it says he studied LUA as Danzan is considered the lsat art with real Lua in it.

MadeOfOlives
7/24/2006 11:01pm,
Ok, so I went to check out the school that often comes up as an ad on bullshido, as mentioned above.

I visited one class, and was not allowed to participate, which I can understand, I guess... though it is the first grappling type class to do so.

The warmup was similar to any other judo or bjj warmup- lots of rolling, kidney hops, the works. They even did the leg movement for the triangle in the air as an ab warmup sort of thing. Probably lasted a half hour.

Then came uchi-komi- fit-ins for throws, as one pretty much always sees in judo. Everyone looked quite smooth. It was very impressive in fact- you normally see some people muscling through things, even on uchi-komis.

Then it turned out that all they do is two-person compliant techniques. There were a wide variety of them practiced, and it was sort of neat to some of the techniques that must have been adapted into judo. But no one actually rolled, or did randori. I asked about this after class, and was told that they were preparing for a big test/seminar that was coming up, and thus were not stressing randori. I was also told that if that was what I was looking for, I would probably be better off at a judo school.

They did not misrepresent what they did- they were clear about doing the techniques together, and not really sparring frequently. I would not call what they did Bullshido, at least to me, as a person with some MA experience who knows what to look for. It was simply not an alive martial art as practiced.