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joeca
3/17/2004 5:42pm,
This sounds like a trolling but in all honesty

Is aikido really so bad? It seems like alot of people on the internet want to rip on it and say it doesn't work etc etc.

I'd like to hear from aikidoka on this matter. Thing is i take judo atm, but it's really not giving me what im looking for. It's a great art but the class is just terrible, it's too bad there aren't more clubs around me. The only options i've found really are aikido and some tkd and karate places.

Aikido really interests me, but from what i know it takes a long time to be proficient, and it's street effectiveness is often doubted.

So like i said i'd like to ask guys who actually study it, and not the guys who tend to rant on it. Thanks

kismasher
3/17/2004 5:51pm,
aikido can run the spectrum from being a pretty decent fighting art to being ballroom dancing

count on finding much more of the latter. if you already are proficient at judo you really won't learn much more in aikido anyway, maybe the wristlocks and some different types of head (ha, ha) control

i study it and enjoy it, but i still get aggravated at times with the curriculum and lack of sparring

Peter H.
3/17/2004 5:55pm,
It's like any martial art, if you practice it to be street effective, it will be, if you don't it won't be. Aikido runs the gamut from stripped down, hardcore, looks like BJJ in Hakamas to Spend 50 minutes of class breathing, 10 minutes solo exercises. You just have to look around and find what your looking for in the school.

Skummer
3/17/2004 5:59pm,
Well, I don't actually train aikido, but I can tell you why most people throw off on it.

1) Lack of sparring in most schools
--This is the biggest reason, hands down. You can't learn to apply technique without trying it out on a resisting opponent.

2) Many aikido throws are one point of contact throws
--Styles such as judo and shuai chiao use mostly 3 point of contact throws (arm-shoulder-hip, shoulder-hip-leg, etc.). Aikido has many throws where you only grab the wrist, arm, or whatever, just one point of contact. This means you have to have darn good kuzushi and be privvy to your opponent's movement (hence aiki) to pull them off cleanly.

3) Many aikido techniques seem to require fine motor skills
--Grabbing somebody's wrist in a fight is just plain hard if they're trying to pound you. Add the adreneline rush and it gets even harder.

Now, I firmly believe aikido techniques work. Applying them is the hard part. Lots of practice controlling your opponent's balance would be required, and that includes some kind of realisitic sparring.

I think judo complements aikido nicely since you be learn how to off-balance a live uke. In fact, my judo instructor took aikido for 9 years and he seems to have some faith in its techniques.

Choke
3/17/2004 6:02pm,
We had a guest Aikido sandan (who is also a Miami Dade police officer) teach at one of my school's dojos. All we worked on was 101 ways to reverse a variety of wrist grabs. The wristlocks when locked in would probably tear your **** up but they seem extremely hard to apply.

Bottom line is that I didn't come away with anything that I could use. Completely the opposite of my first Karate lesson where I learned the back fist, jab, front kick, reverse punch, and counter to the headlock and ONE counter to the wrist grab (that works most the time).

I understand it takes a long time to master but when you can't glean even one thing from a class then its a waste of time. Though if you have the time in your life to learn it go right ahead.

All the clips and demos ive seen of Aikido all have counters and throws off a wristgrab a lapel grab and sometimes a haymaker punch adding to my negative perception. I haven't written it off yet but it's definitely very low on my list of MA's I wish to get involved with.

Jolly_Roger
3/17/2004 6:05pm,
Steven Seagal said that they work, and he's a certified Buddah...so he wouldn't lie, would he?

virtual_mantis
3/17/2004 6:18pm,
I haven't taken akido but an acquaitence of mine has. His interpretation of the teachings were to avoid confrontation at all costs. he explained it like this. If you see a bunch of thug looking characters coming down the street towards you. Instead of confidently continuing to walk and make eye contact. You should cross the street and keep on walking to avoid a possible confrontation.

While I certainly don't welcome confrontation i don't necessarily think that this "solution" is the best.

kismasher
3/17/2004 6:21pm,
Originally posted by virtual_mantis
I haven't taken akido but an acquaitence of mine has. His interpretation of the teachings were to avoid confrontation at all costs. he explained it like this. If you see a bunch of thug looking characters coming down the street towards you. Instead of confidently continuing to walk and make eye contact. You should cross the street and keep on walking to avoid a possible confrontation.

While I certainly don't welcome confrontation i don't necessarily think that this "solution" is the best.


you're an idiot

virtual_mantis
3/17/2004 6:24pm,
Originally posted by kismasher
you're an idiot

I am an idiot sometimes. In this case I don't think I am. Explain.

SMF
3/17/2004 6:37pm,
A lot of people train in aikido for a short time and quit as the training at this stage is not against an activly resisting opponent and as mostly all reactive (I grab you this way, you do the technique....) even the "free" training is heavily stylised. Trouble is, a brief stay in aikido isn't really likely to let you take away very much. However when the "reactive" responses are learned the defender trains to synthesise them together effectivly into one technique, reacting to whatever is presented and being able to flow from one principle to another. Its not, as a whole bunch of folks on the internet would say waiting for someone to grab your wrist or other stylised attack, and then proceding to perform a fine motor orientated technique straight out of a grading. Its training so these principles are ingrained and you react to the attack naturally. And as for the "peace" aspect its really a lack of maliciousness and a long term goal to not aim to injure if its not needed. The applied principles can be very dangerous. Aikido principles are much easier applied to someone who has flipped out and really wants to hurt you than a surgical, cool headed fighter who wishes for some sort of martial chess macth.

virtual_mantis
3/17/2004 6:44pm,
Originally posted by soul mind fist
... And as for the "peace" aspect its really a lack of maliciousness and a long term goal to not aim to injure if its not needed...

This is what my acquaintence (I use this word because I would never call this guy my friend) chose to focus on. It was all about the peacful philosophy of the art. Almost hippie like, the way he talked about it.

So the point of my post was you could end up going to an Aikido school that offers "zero" real world value. And in the case of my acquaintence be crossing the street all night because you're afraid of your own shadow.

KuNg FooL
3/17/2004 6:45pm,
Obviously the guy wants to know more about it to see if he'd definitely be interested in studying it. A friend of yours telling you that they told him to walk accross the street when "thug" looking people are walking towards you is retarded. Even if your friend's teacher said that, which I'm not saying he didn't, it's not relevant to the question of whether or not this guy should study Aikido. Unless, in your friend's class, they teach you what stance and technique to use while walking across the street and avoiding eye contact with the potential attackers to get out of harms way, then it's a pointless fact to bring up. Just pointing that out...not calling you an idiot.

I say just go to the Aikido school near you and tell the guy in charge what you want out of it and ask him what he has to offer. Talk to some of the students there to get their opinion and ask them if they think it has any effectiveness in the street and if it will take a long time before you get any good at it.

Kiozz
3/17/2004 6:48pm,
Originally posted by virtual_mantis
I haven't taken akido but an acquaitence of mine has. His interpretation of the teachings were to avoid confrontation at all costs. he explained it like this. If you see a bunch of thug looking characters coming down the street towards you. Instead of confidently continuing to walk and make eye contact. You should cross the street and keep on walking to avoid a possible confrontation.

While I certainly don't welcome confrontation i don't necessarily think that this "solution" is the best.

It just sounds like common sense to me. What do you see wrong in this mantis? I don't think this has much to do with aikido.

Ippatsu182
3/17/2004 6:55pm,
Aikido is good for learning how to roll and it can teach you some decent footwork. However it comes at a price. You often learn many bad habits when it comes to fighting/self defense. For one, aikidoka tend to keep their hands down, even during randori. Another thing is I see far too many aikidoka relying on tenkan and tenkan-irimi movements (turning to get behind their opponents). This is great in class but will kill you if your opponent decides to start swinging wild haymakers or hooks.

I think aikido is pretty good for hobbists. If you only want to go to the dojo twice a week and release stress from work, then it's a good alternative. However, if you're actually concerned about fighting or self defense, I'd probably take something else.

virtual_mantis
3/17/2004 6:57pm,
****! I was just trying to offer up an alternative view of what he could be getting involved with.

If you want to talk about things that are idiotic, retarded and senseless, I would say that living in fear of something that might happen is idiotic, retarded and senseless. Like crossing the street to avoid a confrontation that only exists in your mind.

KuNg FooL
3/17/2004 7:03pm,
I didn't say that theory was your idea and you're stupid for it or something. I was just saying that it has nothing to do with the teachings of Aikido. Yeah, maybe your teacher will say, "now students, I don't want you getting in fights if you don't have to, so avoid them if you have the chance." That doesn't mean he's gonna teach you how to avoid it, and waste your time with a theory like that which will only put more fear in you instead of confidence in case you ever do have to fight without a way to get out of it. Any good teacher of any MA will tell you not to start fights, and to avoid them if you have a chance to walk away from them. So what does it have to do with Aikido and if somebody should learn it or not? I don't know. That's my point.